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I just saw the murmur. Now, I'm psyched about this book, and my anticipation has not changed, I have pre-ordered my copy, and I WILL love reading this! Plus, Kevin says he's already having ideas for supplemental sourcebooks! This means there's a lot of buzz and interest! I was, and am still anxious to see the world being expanded upon from its initial musings! A mix of science and magic, a powerful foe behind the scenes, a peek into different kinds of zombies depending on the kinds of people they infect. Magic is out there, but rare. Psychics are out there, but who knows what to make of them. I wanted to see an expansion on Brulyx, his demonic forces, where he might fit into the Minion Wars, and hopefully even more info on the mysterious culture that locked him out of Earth in the first place, one that I can only guess were the Lemurians, a people we've been waiting to see more of since Rifts Underseas! I was, and stil am, excited to see the work that Josh and Joshua had tempted us with, fleshed out and expanded upon from their original vision!

Then I saw this quote from Kevin and the Murmur. Quote:

"To answer a few of the questions I’ve seen floating around about Dead Reign™:

- There is no magic.
- No psionics.
- It is an S.D.C. world setting.
- Nobody knows who or how the Wave or the Zombie Apocalypse happened, though there are five common theories.
- Zombies dominate the planet.
– There’s a big, juicy section on zombies and tips on how to fight them.
- “Ordinary People” are the Survivor O.C.C. and there are 42 (tweaked) occupations to pick from.
- The base rules are BTS-2."

No magic and no psionics.

HUH.

Okay, it's base is BTS-2, but without even the psychics in it. Magic isn't just rare, it's NON-EXISTENT. This has me scratching my head already, I liked the types of zombies from the Rifter being defined by ability and mystic of psychic potential. I liked, and still like the world not being that sharp about such things, but that it would still at least be present. Heck, they have it in a lot of Japanese horror and culture, so why not?

No one knows exactly how the Wave happened. So what, no conclusions about Unisane? No refuge in Winnipeg? I'm all for mystery and questions, but now there might not even BE a Demon Lord involved? I LIKE the idea of Brulyx and the Benford Group! It separates the Resident Evil comparisons from it that way and makes it all its own! Obviously they'll still be part of the finished product. But until I get my copy and see what's been altered, I'll have to keep a raised eyebrow.

I've compiled an open poll above, and until the final official release of the book, I will reserve judgement and my answer. Already I'm seeing people cheering for the no supernatural side. Okay, that's fine for you. But me? I liked the unfolding flower of the Rifter and all its rich potential! I can understand if people want to like one part and take out another for their own games. But when Palladium begins to make a new book and separate it from its original draft by lessening it and taking away from certain classes? I'm sorry, but that's something that was my initial turnoff from BTS-2. I liked how it dealt more with the mood and settings, expanding the Lazlo Society and fleshing out the classes. But diminishing their I.S.P.? Making it so that magic and psionics don't exist AT ALL? If I wanted an apocalypse with all that death but no magic, I'd play Systems Failure. A lot of us already salvaged parts of SF to use the classes there in this world, and I imagine there still being plenty to choose from.

Needless to say this is only my opinion, and I'm already on a Dennis Miller-esque rant. I believe in having an open mind and allowing for the possibility of MORE options and preferences for your own games, NOT LESS. With multiple possibilities and no one being sure of, sure, that adds to the mystery. I'm all for that! But diminishing capabilities, plus taking away from possible answers as to how it happened, and thus setting people up for a never-ending quest for survival and seeking hope, only to have it snatched away because it doesn't exist!?

Okay, breathing deeply.

This is a knee-jerk reaction on what I read on a Murmur, and I haven't read the finished product. I'm sure there will be a lot I will incorporate into a DR game. But I was already running, and still am running a DR Beta game based on the Josh-squared's work, borrowing from other games, waiting for the main book to answer questions while I filled in the gaps with my players, heaving responsibilities upon them, showing that actions have consequences, and that there MIGHT be hope that they themselves could provide to the world. I was already conceiving making two divergent realities, once for the main DR book when it comes out where my PC's never existed, and then the one where they're in, but are seeing just how crazy, and large the scope really is. After seeing the murmur, plus other people's initial reactions to it, I can already see sides being made, lines being drawn.

I look forward to seeing the final book. But I declare my allegiance and admiration for the work that Josh and Joshua presented! I like the few zombies we've seen, and anticipate the others yet to be presented! I like the secret truth behind the outbreak being a mix of alchemy and the arcane, science and sorcery. Will there be other rumors and possibilities? Sure! I want to see them! But I like to see the possibility of a light at the end of the tunnel. I like there being a direct source with deep plots, and something for the tattered remnants of humanity to survive, then one day rise up and fight against. Those are the seeds that can be sown for a long lasting campaign, and an epic war to rival that of any book, program or movie series.

Here's a question that only time will tell: With there being talks of future DR supplements, if the fan reaction is there leaning more towards the original version of the setting and draft, will those become made available to see? Or will it be focused on the 'doing more with less' philosophy? As I said, only time will tell. But I'd love to see the creations and thoughts of the author as compared to what will be released.

Until the book comes out, all we can do is guess and express our feelings on little tidbits. When the book DOES come out, I hope this thread will become a point of contention and comparing what we like and how we'll run our own games. But I already see a DR Earth 1 and 2 line being drawn and debated upon. Time will tell, let the discussion begin and the kudos go to those who made all this possible, the creators of the game, the artists bringing it to life and all those who helped to bring this project to fruition. May it continue to inspire and bring pleasure to all of us gamers!

I don't have the book yet so I can't really say.

I DID like the stuff in Rifter 40, and liked it alot. Still being honest I found the "Death cult trying to bring a supernatural dude in by killing off people and using the PPE" Part not to my liking. I'm not discounting the work itself. It's just not my favorite flavor of Zombie. I like mine either scientific, or unknown.

But that's me. I like Pepsi. Some people like Coke. Doesn't mean one's better than the other, but it's a preference of flavor. SO yes I'm happy that the book isn't "Here's a supernatural setting, here's supernatural zombies (( More than.. you know. Jus walking dead)). If you don't like it you can take parts of this but this is how _WE'RE Setting it in the book.

Instead it seems to be "Here's Zombies. Here's rules for zombies. Heres 5 DIFFERENT ways you could go with, for the Reason behind the Rise, or none of the above.

See.... the book itself seems SOOOO much more open in the way Kevin discribed it. But you know what.. with the way Kevin discribed it, you can STILL Play it as Rifter 40 Zombies with the alien intelligence. Just use Rifter 40 as your first sourcebook for the game and use that as YOUR setting

My Setting will likely be more 'Unknown' Or Scientific...

And this way we BOTH get what we want. You get your death cults and alien intenigence. I get my Virus gone wrong or just "huh???" factor.

We both get a good game.



Now... that's alot of assumption up there.... we don't really know yet. It's just now going to the printers. I'm looking forward to it more than I was.. but I COULD get the book and be like "What's this crap??" I don't expect I will but I won't know till I'm holding it. I have high hopes for it.

And I agree with you on that point, I like the versatility and potential. I like how we'll be able to make our own worlds. That's always been something that Palladium's been great at, possibilities. I look forward to getting the book and making up my own mind. Maybe it's not as limiting as I'm afraid it might be. But all I can see until the book comes out is the divisive lines and how the games will be interpreted. Heck, with 5 different rumors, that's 5 different worlds and possible games. That's good!

The high hopes continue for me as well, next week the books should be done and we'll get to have them shipped out. For me, I can't help but see it from a creative point as well. I'm also hoping to be in the Rifter as well, so I'm curious as to if I made my submission in on time, what will be changed from my original vision, etc. I have a double bout of anticipation for November, triple if Dyval makes it out at the end of the month too!

No magic, no psionics, no true answer to who are what caused the wave. This is pure win to me. I love it!

From what I heard about the Rifter version, my biggest disappointment was that the wave not only had an answer, but that answer was a demon lord. It seems like every game has some super powerful evil as the root of the conflict.

I think it is way more interesting that the wave will not have answer and could even just be an evil supernatural force of nature with nothing driving or controlling it.

See, this is what I was afraid of. KS taking a very cool twist on the idea and burying it with his own "ideas". I loved the ideathat magic was there in the background but so rare and hard to do it would be a shock when it did show up. (I imagined Ritual magic only etc).

I'll still check out the book but right now, from that murmur, there appears that there is NOTHING to seperate DR from other zombie games like AFMBE and the like.. except how fast the zombies appeared. Like I said, I will still check the book out but now my enthusiasm went from "must buy NOW!" to.. eh.. interested.

Citizen Lazlo wrote:

Levi wrote:No magic, no psionics, no true answer to who are what caused the wave. This is pure win to me. I love it!

Makes one of us.

From what I heard about the Rifter version, my biggest disappointment was that the wave not only had an answer, but that answer was a demon lord. It seems like every game has some super powerful evil as the root of the conflict.

It was A LOT more than that.

I think it is way more interesting that the wave will not have answer and could even just be an evil supernatural force of nature with nothing driving or controlling it.

Not me, but I hope people enjoy it.

I'm sorry, this was not a dig at you or your writing or creativity. I hope you didn't take it that way. I'm sure what you submitted was very cool. The entire game concept and zombies concepts are really cool. However, I think I like the changes. Not that I will ever know how you meant it to be. Heck, on that note, I change a ton of material in all of my games because I don't like it or it doesn't fit my vision. I have an almost completely custom combat system, I modify a lot of OCCs, and disreqaurd many back story elements.

One of my biggest pet peeves about horror films, books, and games is that few things are ever left a mystery. Human’s greatest fear is of the unknown. How can you overcome or defeat what you don’t understand? That should always trump other elements in a horror setting or story. That's why Lovecraft will always be one of the greatest horror stories of all time.

Kirklyn speaks sense.

The books not out yet people! I went for the megaversal option. I always knew that whatever spin Kevin put on it, I was going to spin it further with a few nasties here, a few magic rituals there, floopers everywhere. Cut and paste - "possibilities only limited by your imagination".

Yeah, it must chide Josh that your vision of a zombie apocalypse won't be fully realised in print, but that's just part and parcel of the freelancer gig, eh? It must feel pretty cool to have generated so much excitement and planted the seed for what could be a big hit for Palladium.

I personally think and hope this book will own.

At this point and time I am going to use and STICK with Rifter#40 version of Dead Reign. I will only use the 3 types of zombies brought up. I will not use any O.C.C other then ordinary person form BTS-2. I will make my game as close to a "true" zombie apocalypse, just using Citizen Lazlo's reason for the RISE of the dead. His answer was mix of supernatural and super science, although NO player character will ever know this answer.

Exactly MY plan, though i p[lan a few additions depending on what i read in the book. Sinister minds DO think alike. Makes me remember the good times here before the message boards.


I agree with everyone. We have to wait for the book to come out next week to decide on our course of action. Me, i see it as either if it's good i add it to the adventure and use whatever new types of zombies i like (the half-breed better not be boring ) as well as the story. Hopefully the story will continue from the Rifter #40, but if not it can be changed to whatever the GMs decide.

Perfect example: Rifts: The Siege of Tolkeen, IMHO good story, alot of BS elements as well as a BS ending. So whenever i run a Rifts game i alter it to MY liking! (sorry all for bringing another game into this, but it's the best one i use) Point is the GM has all power to decide what Zombie Earth you want (though i know most of you guys know that, just wanted to point it out is all. )

Citizen Lazlo wrote:I change a lot too, I just wish people could see what I wrote because I am damn proud of it.

Ouch. Sorry dude. The cult / demon concept was awesome and hopefully your ideas will be seen as a Rifter article. Without that, it just sounds like an AFMBE clone and that drops my interest significantly.

I went for not sure, as I will try to hold judgment till I have the book in my hands, and have read it.
However I must say from what I read in Rifter #40 I was actually liked the idea as it was, and would have liked to see the full idea that they were planning.
In all likelyhood thou whatever the book turns out to actually be, I will likely end up doing my own spin on things. Thou I will likely keep The Demon Lord, and play things at least more like a offshoot of the BTS setting. So yeah there will still be Magic, and Psionics, and a few other things as well. But then I am just a pain that way.

Good to know that there are others who have approached this the same way i have.

I'll wait to vote untill I have a copy of DR in my hands to compare the two.

I will just say that it will annoy my wife that magic has been removed from the game though.

Citizen Lazlo wrote:Honestly, Palladium owns all of the original work product, I don't think that the original stuff will ever see the light of day beyond the manuscript I bound myself for my game.

Once the book comes out, please consider compiling what's missing into a Rifter article that offers an optional spin on the setting. Since the Rifter stuff is "unofficial" fan submissions, I can't see why Kevin would disapprove. The Rifter is a great location for revealing "cutting room floor" materials. I am sure the fans would love to see alternate options for their games.

And if not the Rifter, there's always Rifter Zero.

I've got the main book and read it. I've cast my votes, and my full review will be coming in the near future. Time to unleash my inner X-Play and Zero Punctuation onto the review of this book.

DtMK wrote:I've got the main book and read it. I've cast my votes, and my full review will be coming in the near future. Time to unleash my inner X-Play and Zero Punctuation onto the review of this book.

Cool! Can't wait for it. Gonna need to make up a new storyline now that the PCs in my game decided to be stupid and are gonna get themselves killed..... or worse.

My review's up now, check it out and hope it helps.

Mark your calendars for a tentative release on January 12. The Rifter #45 is set to have more info on Brulyx, Gregius and the Benford Group!

DtMK wrote:Mark your calendars for a tentative release on January 12. The Rifter #45 is set to have more info on Brulyx, Gregius and the Benford Group!

So i read from your other post in your review thread. GREAT news. (talk about a reason to be thankful ) Though i see that one of the writers doesn't seem to care for it. But i already posed an answer to his question in that thread.

Just thought I'd see what people felt about the poll now that the books have been out a while, and a chance for newcomers to chime in.

A year later, what do people think now? Any more votes to chime in?

DtMK wrote:A year later, what do people think now? Any more votes to chime in?

I voted for the Rifter version. The vision of the original authors was fine and it had a more Palladium rpg, over the top feel to it. Kevin's version is ok too but it feels more basic, generic.

lordchaz2k wrote:

DtMK wrote:A year later, what do people think now? Any more votes to chime in?

Honestly, I think both versions have their charms and that it comes down to the individual tastes of the GM/players...

I persoanlly have played the RPG version for the simplistic goal of survivng daily in world gone undead. This latest sourcebook goes a long way in coming up with new methods of doing this.

I will add here that I fully understand Kevin's note at the end of the core book where he mentions that he changed the setting/style as he felt that Palladium has gone down the same road the Rifter version was going.

That being said, the Rifter version has been used in my Beyond the Supernatural setting on a private island setting with mad scientists and what not as it fits the BTS style very well.

I prefer the book version over the rifter version. However, I tweak the rules a bit on the half damage to the head for low caliber weapons and arrows being worthless, also easier to hit the head (none of this natural 17 or higher BS).

Beyond that I follow the RPG books pretty closely.
-Matt

I tend to play my games so that only lower tech universes show up in higher tech ones, so places like PW anything goes, Rifts pretty much anything goes, DR might see a little BTS cross over (I consider HU with the super powers and slightly advanced tech gadgets as to advanced). HU might see N&SS, DR or BTS cross over.
-Matt

My game is only loosely based on the system as presented anyway. So, I voted "neither." I think that the greatest things about Palladium's system and their worlds is that you can simply create your own mix of worlds. In my "DR," I have N&SS and Mystic China, BtS, and DR characters running from haven to haven trying to find the reason and, therefore, a cure. I have combat teams that sweep abandoned cities to clear blocks so the Eggheads can find the resources they might need in their research. I have a small group of Survivors just trying to find a place to live in peace, even for a month or two. I even have (in a crazy fun solo adventure) a friend who is playing a Marine Sniper who has been trapped out in the Southwest Asian desert simply trying to get to some location of safety (he ran out of ammunition about two episodes ago and is now using a Ranger Tomahawk as his primary weapon). Will the characters succeed? Is there a curable reason? How many must die before the truth is known? Will they even find any safety anywhere in the world? Heh, who knows?

azazel1024 wrote:I prefer the book version over the rifter version. However, I tweak the rules a bit on the half damage to the head for low caliber weapons and arrows being worthless, also easier to hit the head (none of this natural 17 or higher BS).

Beyond that I follow the RPG books pretty closely.
-Matt

agreed. some of those new rules are totally bogus

RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:

azazel1024 wrote:I prefer the book version over the rifter version. However, I tweak the rules a bit on the half damage to the head for low caliber weapons and arrows being worthless, also easier to hit the head (none of this natural 17 or higher BS).

Beyond that I follow the RPG books pretty closely.
-Matt

agreed. some of those new rules are totally bogus

Some of the rules are, but I love the story and setting (and the tables are some of the best random search, encounter, etc tables I've seen PB do).
-Matt

I mix both personally. Major/Minor psychics are available, as are the P.C.C.s from Beyond the Supernatural 2nd edition. Magic categories are limited to Mystic O.C.C., Priest of Light O.C.C., Acolyte O.C.C., Channeller O.C.C., Priest of Night O.C.C. (Death Cult). Mystic to follow in the lines of what Rifter #40 hinted at, Priest of Light to represent various religious leaders gaining powers from their deity (which lends credit to the "Wrath of God" reason for the zombie problem), Acolyte for someone who believed, but not quite enough to be able to use magic, the Channeller to represent innate, future magic use, and Priest of Night to represent a step up from Death Cult NPC. (Bottom rung, not necessarily a worshiper, is the Death Cult NPC, next up is Priest of Night, followed by Necromancer as the top of the list).

I also have a 30 page file on notes for merging Dead Reign with Systems Failure (including anti-Zed organitech, such things as Zombie Stuffers, NORAD created explosives specifically tailored to affecting zombies, ranging in size from the smallest to largest: the Z3 "Coffin Nail", Z11 "Gravestone", Z30 "Casket", Z50 "Bucket Kicker", Z76 "Headstone City", and the largest one, the Z99 "Crematorium"), Nightbane, Beyond the Supernatural, Heroes Unlimited 2, Ninjas & Super Spies, After the Bomb.

Sounds interesting!

I like to pull elements from whatever text or dark corner of imagination fits the spirit of the adventure. Our current game takes place immediately prior to the wave as a team of mercenaries investigates a strange "outbreak" in the Yucatan Peninsula.

As for magic and psionics, I don't see them being part of my games - although I'd never rule it out. Once Brulyx emerges from his realm, all bets are off! But for now, I think the game is more about pitting (relatively) normal humans against hordes of zombies and all the survivors have is their ingenuity and each other. Has been fun so far.

My game is a pure horror-survival story with the ability to thrive being the most realistic goal. All that supernatural stuff is good for the rumor mill, but it has about as much substance as saying the army is planning its counter attack. I don't attribute any native powers or abilities to the DR universe nor do I accept 'tourists' from other settings (thick dimensional barrier, you see).

Just you, your gun and the zeds.

I've been writing my journal based both on the game I ran for friends, the parts with the Lazarus crew, and with the released versions. They both have their places, and I've tried to give respect to all versions of it. With that said, I prefer what I saw from the Rifters while adding from other parts of Palladium's Megaverse, even adding some of the other special zombies in the sourcebooks released since then. I acknowledge the other books and worlds, it's just not my preference in terms of hope of ever finding a cure or end to it other than finding a place to maroon yourself away from the hordes.

Just you, your gun and the zeds.

And when the bullets run out, a trusty melee weapon - pipe wrench or machete.

Pretty much, gritty and visceral.

To each their own. But personally, I prefer to have a horror event where the survivors can actually survive and get the hell away from the bad guys, if not defeating them entirely.

I say if they want to get away, they'd better start running! Seriously, survival in DR doesn't really hinge on having powers vs. not having any. I see defeat of the enemy being best left on a local level as relevant to the characters, regional at most.

I can see that too, but I'm sorry, my first dose of DR was from Rifter #40 and am loyal to it. Powers aren't needed for a fun game, it just adds a little extra flavor in my opinion, that's all.

Well obviously so, hence the topic reference to 'divergence'! I don't see the need for powers to succeed in the setting and don't see their absence as a hinderance at all. If anything, not having an edge keeps you on edge and that's a hallmark of the DR setting! I feel like zombie apocalypse scenarios are supposed to come with a smothering fear, edginess and ever present knowledge that your security hangs by a thread. More importantly, it's a statement of the human spirit by having the willingness to fight against impossible odds even if it is only for the safety of a 50-person haven community and not saving the world.

My final point would be that RIFTS has been doing zombies and powers for a long time, PB Fantasy and BTS as well. Why do it again in DR.

it's a statement of the human spirit by having the willingness to fight against impossible odds

Well said. This is part of the reason why I find the genre so interesting - survival instinct coupled with skills of the everyman (or lack thereof) - insurmountable odds and the death of hope (or not) - that's the difference between the post-apocalyptic tyrant and the altruistic survivor - and all shades in between.

Of course 'post-apocalyptic altruism' is really just the individual's desire to NOT BE THE LAST ONE!

Nope, cultists don't have any magic either. Whatever sway the death cultist priests have over zombies is mysteriously attributed to other sources.

The description of how the daily mass keeps zombies from storming their communities makes quite a bit of sense if you consider how rituals channel member PPE.

Obviously, the decision to incorporate magic and psionics in a Dead Reign game is at the GM's discretion. What I think is irrelevant to what some other GM wants to do with his/her game.

That said, the way I interpret the Death Priest's power is that it is wholly derived from the priest's allegiance to Brulyx. It's not magic as much as a gift from the evil they worship. The book mentions that the priests have some sort of arcane knowledge, but it seems limited to zombie control only. Therefore, I'd say (in response to lakota's post) that although this 'gift' exists for the Death Priests, it does not necessarily follow that 'good guys' would have access to magic and psionic powers.

IF magic users (and psychics) are part of the game, I like the idea of the random power fluctuations and it would probably be disadvantageous to the mage in the sense that they'd have more PPE than the ordinary survivor and would perhaps be the first one the zeds would go after.

Good point, but I'd say go further and say that any form of magical elements that may be a part of the death priest's sway is so subtle that it hardly constitutes true magic or powers. I'd classify it more as an edge than anything.

I'm speaking in terms of magic that is wielded by a single person or creature. Death Priests wield no magic aside from a unique ability to tame the dead which, to a survivor or a parishoner, probably looks like magic. No PPE cost = not magic, but maybe it's just me.

I don't think anybody plays to be ordinary. An absence of powers or magic does not result in an ordinary character, quite the contrary actually. I subscribe to the idea that it's a characters actions and deed that determines whether they were ordinary vs. extraordinary.