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Burulovesyou wrote:

Talavar wrote:A few points: first Carpet of Adhesion can't be cast on something flying, if I'm understanding the OP's description - it has to sit on a surface.

Since Carpet of Adhesion is an old spell that's never been properly updated in my opinion, in my games we've house-ruled that it's duration if you save is 2D6 actions rather than rounds. Back in the earlier versions of Palladium games rounds were short; now I can't imagine a combat lasting 12 rounds.

Have them fight something with a good inherent ability to teleport - Carpet of Adhesion isn't much use if they can just pop out of it.

Have something with Negate Magic or Dispel Magic Barriers - either can get rid of CoA.

Use Carpet of Adhesion back, as others have noted. Nothing that annoying will get used too often after that.

Fight opponents from a longer range - or closer. CoA is only good at preventing movement mid-range; it's not much use if you're getting snipered from 4000 feet or if an axe-wielding demon is right in your face.

I think you need to re-read an updated version of the spell. First off it doesn't have to be cast on a surface, it can be molded as long as it is the same square footage and cast like fly paper on a person. Secondly, If you teleport with it, you are still stuck when you teleport, it comes with you- specifically says this is RUE. With the Flypaper thing in mind, one of the biggest pains that I became aware of this spell was when the heros decided to get involved in a fight where some Black Winged Monster Men were fighting with some Samas. When the BWMM got low enough, they just got fly-papered to themselves and fell out of the air. The ones who did get to land next to the heros to get a few swings in with their giant hammers of smashing fury just ended up being carpeted, then the heros stepped behind them and out of range. I still permitted the BWMM to shoot their lightning bolts provided they could see the heros, however it was a mind opener as to how annoying this spell can be. Although I don't blame them for using such a simple spell to deal with that encounter, it did give me some food for thought.

Burulovesyou wrote:As it is, my group currently consists of ~level 3 characters of the following rcc's/occs : An elven High Magus, an elven Mystic Knight (order of the white rose), a changeling shifter, a human cyber-knight, a kankoran wilderness scout, and a human (indian) spirit warrior. As it is, they are currently running a campaign in the Oklahoma/Lone Star area. Now, as it is, the majority of their encounters have been with some of the wild beasties of the area, as well as a few other things I've worked into the mix. Although most of them have played rifts before, we just started playing again recently.

I have noticed an extreme tendency of the same thing happening over and over again in combat; almost anything I throw at them generally ends up in them either casting carpet of adhesion on a group of them, or using the carpet's flypaper effect on flying mobs to glue them to themselves and drop them out of the sky. This is annoying, especially because even if the monsters make their save against the spell, they still are pinned far longer than any reasonable combat will last. This combined with a windrush effectively neutralizes most combatants they could face.

In one of our last sessions, I had a 2 psi-nullifiers along with the antagonists and this seemed to create an actual real combat sequence. It was good to see the characters thinking differently, although they inferred that the enemies were immune to magic, and as such I forsee them falling back into their old routines whenever the next battle is waged.

Despite the fact that Oklahoma is very low in ley line energy, the high magi spent quite a bit of time at a ley line in preparation kicking out ppe talismans so him and the mystic knight would basically be well and good for any ppe they will need.

That being said, apart from being attacked from people at a far range, what would you all suggest for dealing with this annoying repetition in our battles?

Burulovesyou wrote:

Captain Shiva wrote:Yes, but you can still only cast on one individual or on a surface,according to RUE, not in midair. Remember, it's Carpet of Adhesion, not Cloud of Adhesion.

It doesn't state that it cant be on a person in the air, it just says that you can cast it on a surface like the ground, wall, ceiling, etc OR on a person. Also, it says it can be shaped as long as the square footage stays the same. *shrugs* That's the argument that was made to me.

ak-73 wrote:The first PC starting to gesture in preparation for a spell should draw the fire of all enemies at once until he is dead. This works especially well if the enemies aren't clustered but spread over a wider area. In general people who are (due to their own actions) suspect of an unknowably high range of power should be made prime targets.

In my game, low-level spell-casting generally takes two full melee actions, which basically gives opfors plenty of time to concentrate fire *or* to try to disrupt the incantation by hugging/holding/etc the spell-caster. In fact, this diminshes the combat effectiveness of spell-casters greatly (to the point of unpopularity even, wrongly so).

The only problem I am having with all this is that I have allowed my party's Battle mage to dodge while spell-casting (because he's a Battle mage) with half dodge Bonus. And since he has PP 30 that is still *a lot*. But hey - he's just *good*, naturally gifted to the highest degree.

Alex

ak-73 wrote:

Talavar wrote:

ak-73 wrote:The first PC starting to gesture in preparation for a spell should draw the fire of all enemies at once until he is dead. This works especially well if the enemies aren't clustered but spread over a wider area. In general people who are (due to their own actions) suspect of an unknowably high range of power should be made prime targets.

In my game, low-level spell-casting generally takes two full melee actions, which basically gives opfors plenty of time to concentrate fire *or* to try to disrupt the incantation by hugging/holding/etc the spell-caster. In fact, this diminshes the combat effectiveness of spell-casters greatly (to the point of unpopularity even, wrongly so).

The only problem I am having with all this is that I have allowed my party's Battle mage to dodge while spell-casting (because he's a Battle mage) with half dodge Bonus. And since he has PP 30 that is still *a lot*. But hey - he's just *good*, naturally gifted to the highest degree.

Alex

Your advice there doesn't work - low level spells only take one action to cast. You can fire of a CoA before anyone gets a chance to react, your house rules aside. House rules which make me wonder why anyone in your games would play a mage, by the way.

Well, first of all, I believe that according to the original Rifts rules, casting low-level spells did take half a melee round. Secondly, as you can observe from the topic starter's post, being able to successfully cast a spell can easily have hideous effects, especially if you have more than one spell-caster in a party. Thirdly, given that NPC have between 3 and 6 actions within 15 seconds, the length of two actions per spell doesn't seem to be unreasonable. The incantation would last anywhere between 5 and 10 seconds.

It has interesting tactical consequences too: the allies of the spell-caster need to protect their comrade, while the opposing forces need to prevent the opposing spell-caster from finishing his spell.

And I don't even mention higher level spells here who take (according to the original rules) at least a full melee round to finish.

All-in-all these rules ask for *coordination*, which is intentional. If the players don't coordinate their actions and everybody just blasts away mindlessly, mages are bound to have a problem. Unless they are Battle Magi with PP 30 perhaps.

Alex

Talavar wrote:not only would the juicers and power armour pilots get far more game-time per round, but they'd also be the ones accomplishing almost everything.

Burulovesyou wrote:As it is, my group currently consists of ~level 3 characters of the following rcc's/occs : An elven High Magus, an elven Mystic Knight (order of the white rose), a changeling shifter, a human cyber-knight, a kankoran wilderness scout, and a human (indian) spirit warrior. As it is, they are currently running a campaign in the Oklahoma/Lone Star area. Now, as it is, the majority of their encounters have been with some of the wild beasties of the area, as well as a few other things I've worked into the mix. Although most of them have played rifts before, we just started playing again recently.

I have noticed an extreme tendency of the same thing happening over and over again in combat; almost anything I throw at them generally ends up in them either casting carpet of adhesion on a group of them, or using the carpet's flypaper effect on flying mobs to glue them to themselves and drop them out of the sky. This is annoying, especially because even if the monsters make their save against the spell, they still are pinned far longer than any reasonable combat will last. This combined with a windrush effectively neutralizes most combatants they could face.

In one of our last sessions, I had a 2 psi-nullifiers along with the antagonists and this seemed to create an actual real combat sequence. It was good to see the characters thinking differently, although they inferred that the enemies were immune to magic, and as such I forsee them falling back into their old routines whenever the next battle is waged.

Despite the fact that Oklahoma is very low in ley line energy, the high magi spent quite a bit of time at a ley line in preparation kicking out ppe talismans so him and the mystic knight would basically be well and good for any ppe they will need.

That being said, apart from being attacked from people at a far range, what would you all suggest for dealing with this annoying repetition in our battles?