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Hi all.

I am flirting with the idea of ordering a 3rd Grab Bag and using the oppurtunity to get started with the PFRPG, which I know relatively little about beyond those elements that I have picked up from Rifts (Conversion books etc) and books that I have bought to supplement my Rifts Collection (Animals & Monsters, Dragons & Gods).

So, besides the 2nd addition Core book, what books would you all advise as the best ones to go for to "get into" the setting and get a good overview of how things work story and setting wise.

Thanks in advance.

"Western Empire" is IMO the best written of the sourcebooks and a very interesting setting, it also includes a couple of scenarios.

if youre into more adventures (and less background) "Old Ones" with the Timiro Kingdom is the place to start.

both "Adventures on the High Seas" and "Library of Bletherad" have excellent material for worldwide-campaigns.

My gut instinct was to go for

The Core Book
"Adventures on High Seas"
"Western Empire"
"Northern Hinterlands"
"Wolfen Empire"

The "Library of Bletherad" book is a good call - read mention of it in "Hades" and it did catch my interest.

Perhaps a better question would be "are there any sourcebooks which are not crucial to getting a good grasp and knowledge of the game world?"

Some of the books have spells and OCC's which are not present in the main core book. I do know as well that The High Seas and Old Ones have further explanations for some skills and such that failed to materialize in the core rule book. Seeing as how the books are all fairly cheap to acquire (I've got the PFRPG pretty much sealed, except conversion books, which I don't need), it's not that big a stretch to grab the whole thing, if you have the green to do so. Also, I have the weapons manuals as well, castles and such, for ideas and for doing those siege games. It helps to have a good solid base to start from, and you can't get much more solid than some actual floorplans.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

londonbaz wrote:Perhaps a better question would be "are there any sourcebooks which are not crucial to getting a good grasp and knowledge of the game world?"

oh okay, then Id say, "Wolfen Empire" and "Island at the Edge of the World" (probably also "Land of the Damned" 1&2).

have fun with Palladium Fantasy!

So the Wolfen book is sub-par in the range?

A lot of people do not like the "Wolfen Empire" book. I, personally, love it. It's packed with good ideas, and nicely expands on a couple of the adventures out of the classic "Adventures in the Northern Wilderness." It loses some of the other ones, however, which is why some people don't like it; it's also fairly laudatory of the Wolfen, without really going into their societal weaknesses.

londonbaz wrote:So the Wolfen book is sub-par in the range?

well, I personally dont like it cause it was announced (!) to combine the two old Northern Wilderness books - and it didnt. so basically, if you want it all, you have to get three books now. also, its disappointingly thin when it comes to background on the Wolfen Empire. therefore, in my opinion it is the weakest book in the whole line, though it still has some good material in it.

Eastern teritories
Western empire
the old ones

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Monsters and Animals. While it has no world information it does have stats for monsters and animals of all kinds. A must imo for any GM.

londonbaz wrote:snip...
...books that I have bought to supplement my Rifts Collection (Animals & Monsters, Dragons & Gods).

So, besides the 2nd addition Core book, what books would you all advise as the best ones to go for to "get into" the setting and get a good overview of how things work story and setting wise.

Thanks in advance.

Sureshot wrote:I'm surprised no one has mentioned Monsters and Animals. While it has no world information it does have stats for monsters and animals of all kinds. A must imo for any GM.

Because he said he already had it.

I limited myself to the top three I would recommend getting.
I'm of the opinion that all PB games should get ALL the PF books.

imo= I Must Own?

I'd suggest that the besides the main book, Monsters & Animals and Dragons & Gods are the two most broadly useful, with Library of Bletherad being a great addition to that set. For someone starting out fresh with PFRPG, those would be my picks.

I'd stay away from Dragons & Gods, it killed our small group's spirit with everything being overpowered compared to the old edition. Our GM only uses it with the creatures having low rolls for hit points and S.D.C.s the rest is fine thou. Creatures with so many thousands of life points & regeneration, then add in the occasional simultaneous attack can really kill the fun factor. I love the Land of the Damned books they really bring a D&D flavor to the setting.

runebeo wrote:I'd stay away from Dragons & Gods, it killed our small group's spirit with everything being overpowered compared to the old edition. Our GM only uses it with the creatures having low rolls for hit points and S.D.C.s the rest is fine thou. Creatures with so many thousands of life points & regeneration, then add in the occasional simultaneous attack can really kill the fun factor. I love the Land of the Damned books they really bring a D&D flavor to the setting.

Your group must be made of 'glass is half empty' types huh? It's too hard...... Man what a whine. They are not supposed to be easy, that would be defeating the whole purpose. If they work together, and achieve a high level (low level players should NEVER be able to kill a dragon unless it's old, blind, arthritic, and mute, and has no psionic ability whatsoever), they ought to be able to come up with a workable strategy. Assuming that the dragon has a much higher intellect, and that gods in general have the equivalent of super natural stats for all of them, let the dragons and gods KNOW what the players would likely do, and plan accordingly. They can still manage to one up you, by using their collective brains. I know it sounds hard, but it should be hard.

We had a long running campaign of the old edition, over 6 years and we had tons of fun. Then the second edition came and it was well put together, but Dragon & Gods don't seem to match the core book at all. Look at the demons & deevils in the core book, their a little weak in hit points & S.D.C.s along comes D&G with major boost to everything in it. I'm talk about more than 10 times the hit points and throw in a ton of S.D.C.s, plus a high A.R. and regeneration, compare to the old edition the second edition seems want to play catchup with Rifts. Why didn't the demons get a boost? Seems inconstant that at least the greater demons didn't get at least double from what they have. The first edition needed an upgrade, but this turned in to a the greatest power creep in history for rpgs for some creatures. For the group being glass half full type, I guess so, at least when it comes to this book.

I do think one of these topics, or a post about general consensus, should be stickied.


The order I recomend:::

Main Hand Book
Monsters&Animals
Old Ones (Timero Kingdom)
Dragons & Gods
Adventures on the High Seas
Eastern Territories
Island at the Edge of the World
Western Empire
Library of Bletherad
Wolven Empire (If you can find Adventures, and Further Adventures, in the Northern WIlderness get them for additional and missed information)
Northern Hinterlands
Baalgor Watelands
Yin-Sloth Jungles
Mount Nimero
Land of the Damned
Land of the Damned 2

Not listed in order of importance or preferance, not even "world tour" order. More of order on how gameplay has been established- at least in some of my games. Or a come across- this is what they can absorb info and handle in a group. Of course these are all that are out at the moment. but thus far has worked pretty well for adventuring any party thru Palladium.

oh and the stickied topic should also contain a brief summary of each book as well- cause people dont always like to go to more than one source for information.

Sureshot wrote:I'm surprised no one has mentioned Monsters and Animals. While it has no world information it does have stats for monsters and animals of all kinds.

Im surprised you didnt read the initial post.

londonbaz wrote:and books that I have bought to supplement my Rifts Collection (Animals & Monsters, Dragons & Gods).

if londonbaz wouldnt have mentioned those two, I would have highly recommended to get both M&A and D&G (the latter not to actually USE the stats of Gods etc., but for vital info on the Palladium world / religion).

Core rule book.
Eastern Territories OR Western Empire
Dragons and Gods
Monsters and Animals

That's all you need. The last two could be considered optional, but it's really hard to run an accurate fantasy world without access to dragons. (Gods you can get along without, though they do come in handy.)

Northern Ranger wrote: The last two could be considered optional, but it's really hard to run an accurate fantasy world without access to dragons. (Gods you can get along without, though they do come in handy.)

funny, I see it exactly the other way round. you need the Gods for religious background, without them, the world lacks a lot (and whom do priest PCs worship?). a fantasy world without dragons...yeah, its a loss, but you can do without them (as a matter of fact, in most fantasy rpgs I ran the PCs never encountered a dragon).

You can get by just fine with just the core book and Monsters and Animals tbh. There are no MUST haves beyond those.

Other then that just pick up what fits the area you want to play in.

Probitas wrote:Your group must be made of 'glass is half empty' types huh? It's too hard...... Man what a whine. They are not supposed to be easy, that would be defeating the whole purpose. If they work together, and achieve a high level (low level players should NEVER be able to kill a dragon unless it's old, blind, arthritic, and mute, and has no psionic ability whatsoever), they ought to be able to come up with a workable strategy. Assuming that the dragon has a much higher intellect, and that gods in general have the equivalent of super natural stats for all of them, let the dragons and gods KNOW what the players would likely do, and plan accordingly. They can still manage to one up you, by using their collective brains. I know it sounds hard, but it should be hard.

The things are statted to be able to take down an army if they have any intelligence at all behind their actions. Unless you are playing oddities from some other dimension, or just have a stupid dragon you will not beat them. This is, of course, baring the weaker types...

Played well you can take their hp and sdc down to 10% of what it is and still have a solid high level challenge. They tend to have a LOT of abilities to draw on... the hp and sdc is just to make rifts conversions easier IMO... It neglects to factor in the natural AR... Those levels of damage capacity are fine in an MDC world with high tech toys and no AR... they are simply too high for a normal PF game.