Exactly WHAT does the CS have ?

[Lenwen]

Since I came back to the site and started reading on the posts , I've noticed alotta people are actually thinking that the Coalition states has stuff that is not cannon an they actually TRY to defend thier positions with out regaurd to how crazy thier talk seems to get . So far to date I've heard several things ...

1) - The CS walls of thier fortress cities are up to 300ft thick .

2) - The CS has Force Fields .

3) - The CS can pull litterally Millions of troops from the burbs .. and CLEARLY Rifts Deebee's book says thier is not more then 21million people in north america TOTAL . Not just CS ... but Every male,female and child of EVERY Sentient Species IN North America .

4) - The CS has patrols roaming the outter area's of All its Walled Cities .. that can go into combat with an Astral Projected being .. ( utterly against the whole rule)

5) - They could go toe to toe with Lord Splynncryth in a toe to toe war .

6) - They have some kind of "pact" with the Xitixic .. ala the Gen Holmes situation . Which that whole thing just reeks of bad joojoo . ( Starvation for 1 , being in the Xitixic heart of the hivelands an NOT being torn to shreds dispite the numbers of the Xitixic as some proclaimed to be litterally over 1 billion at that time )

So .. My question is simply put logical and really quite genuine .
Where and which books does the CS get all these new toys , abilities , and food to simply toss out to feed thier burbs ( thier prospective military ) ?
Where does it say the Walls of the Cities are 300ft thick ?
Where does it state that the Astral Projected being can be attacked at all while astrally projected in the Cities ? And WHICH guns , ammo , Psionic powers , anything the CS has that can even effect the astral projections ?

It seems to me more and more .. people simply want to just powercreep the CS .. while leaving everyone else .. in N.A. out in the dark an staying forever locked in thier current power setting ..

Why do that ?

These among other things have latly made me more curious then anything .

[Lenwen]

6) - They have some kind of "pact" with the Xitixic .. ala the Gen Holmes situation . Which that whole thing just reeks of bad joojoo . ( Starvation for 1 , being in the Xitixic heart of the hivelands an NOT being torn to shreds dispite the numbers of the Xitixic as some proclaimed to be litterally over 1 billion at that time )

This one was me.
It wasn't meant to power creep the CS, just to explain the survival of General Holmes, and create an interesting twist that the CS would then have to deal with; having 1/3 rd to 1/2 of their military being infected/twisted to owe at least some loyalty to the Xitcix.
I'd actually intended it as a bad thing for the CS.

hahaha gotcha . I liked reading it . It was a REALLY well thought out scenario man . /hats off to ya on that one bro . I was like holy cow .. how the blank did the CS wrangle a A.I. into thier power structur (sp?) now haha

[Dead Boy]

1) - The CS walls of thier fortress cities are up to 300ft thick .

That's a new one on me, though I may be somewhat responsible for it somewhere along the line when I wrote the defenses for Fort Laredo in a Rifter article. In which I made the base's outer walls pretty damn tough and suggested that all CS fortress cities and bases were similar or even tougher.

2) - The CS has Force Fields .

No. Though they may have TK Force Fields and Psi-shields through the use of Psi Tech technology to a limited extent.

3) - The CS can pull litterally Millions of troops from the burbs .. and CLEARLY Rifts Deebee's book says thier is not more then 21million people in north america TOTAL . Not just CS ... but Every male,female and child of EVERY Sentient Species IN North America.

The population of the Fortress City of Chi-Town alone is 5.2 Million humans (RUE 28) including the burbs. Source Book 1 originally put the population of the CS as a whole at 16 Million (with a firm 10% of that being comprised of Dog Boys), which would then include Free Quebec. So either you misread that "21 Million" total population for NA, that books is in error, or the CS and Free Quebec outnumber their enemies 3:1.

4) - The CS has patrols roaming the outter area's of All its Walled Cities .. that can go into combat with an Astral Projected being .. ( utterly against the whole rule)

Yes. It's called the ISS; Internal Security Specialists, introduced in WB:11 CWC, pg. 178-190. They essentially a combined police force / FBI, there to keep the peace inside of the Coalition's cities and towns, and patrol the various 'burbs as well to keep the d-bee scum in their place. Pg. 197 goes into the brutal methods they use to police the burbs and their policies.

As for going into combat with Astral Projected Beings, yes, the CS has people capable of doing this as well. In the back part of the Psi-Scape book (don't have that one handy, so you can look up the page number yourself) they introduce the CS organization called Psi-Bat, which is their various units of psychic soldiers including major and master psychics. Those individuals that can see the invisible or enter the astral plane themselves are capable of attacking such intruders, or at the very least alerting others to their presence. Once detected and found, any psychic attack can harm the astral intruder as long as it's not physical in nature (i.e. TK acceleration attack would be ineffective, while a Mind Bold could be deadly), or alternately a TK Force Field bubble can be used to capture him.

5) - They could go toe to toe with Lord Splynncryth in a toe to toe war.

No.

6) - They have some kind of "pact" with the Xitixic .. ala the Gen Holmes situation . Which that whole thing just reeks of bad joojoo . ( Starvation for 1 , being in the Xitixic heart of the hivelands an NOT being torn to shreds dispite the numbers of the Xitixic as some proclaimed to be litterally over 1 billion at that time )

I highly doubt that the Xiticix are even capable of comprehending the concept of a "pact", a "agreement", or "treaty" of any kind. Holmes got through the old fashioned way; using his brains and accepting his losses.

[Prince Artemis]

I well imagine that the psychic's of Psi-Bat have created a secondary army of astral golems just to protect their cities.

[Ravenwing]

Since I came back to the site and started reading on the posts , I've noticed alotta people are actually thinking that the Coalition states has stuff that is not cannon an they actually TRY to defend thier positions with out regaurd to how crazy thier talk seems to get . So far to date I've heard several things ...



5) - They could go toe to toe with Lord Splynncryth in a toe to toe war .





It seems to me more and more .. people simply want to just powercreep the CS .. while leaving everyone else .. in N.A. out in the dark an staying forever locked in thier current power setting ..

Why do that ?

These among other things have latly made me more curious then anything .

This I think was my comment. (Although a little distorted from the way I put it. )

Let me explain.

Simply put despite Lord Splynns over abundance of troops, he simply couldnt bring them all to bare in any sort of timely manner. Besides to do so, he simply would be leaving to many other places, IE the three other worlds he owns undefended. Add to this the fact that as a business man Ole' Splynn will take into account the fact that a war against the CS simply isnt cost effective. The cost versus gain is to low. Because the CS would inflict massive damage to his military. Cripple it? No. Cause enough damage for Ole' Splynn to say that he's not making any money off the war, and only losing money? Totally.


As to the last part the answers very simple...............

The Coalition States of America are........THE GOOD GUYS!

The mages and D-bees are foul and evil enslaving, baby eating, wife beating, human sacrificing villians that deserve... no need to be completely exterminated from the land. It is our god given duty... nah,, priviledge to be the ones to clear the foul xenos and heretics so that mans spirt can soar!

Also see my last post in your where are the resources thread. It lists all the canon sources for the CS. According to RUE: Sourcebook one and CSWC, the CS's total population is 16.5 million. So that means on NA more then three forths of the country is human, and Coalition. IF the total in D-bees of NA's 21 million is correct.

[Temporalmage]

Not sure where the original idea came from but I can see the CS having a very limited ammount of Force Fields. Either purchased from thier allies the NGR, who have the technology already; or captured force fields from Naruni. Force field technology is probably out of reach of the CS scientists at this time, but that wouldn't stop them from experimenting, or even utilizing existing tech to protect special key places or top personel like the Emperer himself. A personal force field may indeed be made by other dimensional D-bees and highly illegal; but only a fool would arbitrarily throw such tech away out of hand. And the Emperor is no ones fool.

[Lenwen]

Not sure where the original idea came from but I can see the CS having a very limited ammount of Force Fields. Either purchased from thier allies the NGR, who have the technology already; or captured force fields from Naruni.

They destroy all alien tech as per canon refrences . So there goes the " they got it from the aliens " explanation .

NGR has "limited" trade agreement with the CS . And it has been said that they are in fact holding some of the more powerful of thier tech back from the CS . ( Force Fields , composition of thier armors , Cyborg creations , among more notable things too )

Force field technology is probably out of reach of the CS scientists at this time, but that wouldn't stop them from experimenting, or even utilizing existing tech to protect special key places or top personel like the Emperer himself. A personal force field may indeed be made by other dimensional D-bees and highly illegal; but only a fool would arbitrarily throw such tech away out of hand. And the Emperor is no ones fool.

And when told to do something like destroy all Alien tech .. by general orders on the Emp's part .. you think a lowly grunt is going to disobey ?

[Dustin Fireblade]

3)The Vanguard, a small and largely inactive community of mages working to help the cs has made every city, outpost, and base across NA impregnable to teleportation, infiltration, remote viewing, astral projection or any means of covert ops against them that doesn't rely completely on tech.

Well yeah they have to since every single creature on Rifts Earth that knows magic "automatically" seems to know every type of teleportation magic, while every psychic is a mutation short of being a full Psi-Ghost.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Not sure where the original idea came from but I can see the CS having a very limited ammount of Force Fields. Either purchased from thier allies the NGR, who have the technology already; or captured force fields from Naruni.

They destroy all alien tech as per canon refrences . So there goes the " they got it from the aliens " explanation .

NGR has "limited" trade agreement with the CS . And it has been said that they are in fact holding some of the more powerful of thier tech back from the CS . ( Force Fields , composition of thier armors , Cyborg creations , among more notable things too )

Force field technology is probably out of reach of the CS scientists at this time, but that wouldn't stop them from experimenting, or even utilizing existing tech to protect special key places or top personel like the Emperer himself. A personal force field may indeed be made by other dimensional D-bees and highly illegal; but only a fool would arbitrarily throw such tech away out of hand. And the Emperor is no ones fool.

And when told to do something like destroy all Alien tech .. by general orders on the Emp's part .. you think a lowly grunt is going to disobey ?

Naw secretly the CS has a tech version of the Black Vault to put all the stuff they capture and and study.

[Lenwen]

Not sure where the original idea came from but I can see the CS having a very limited ammount of Force Fields. Either purchased from thier allies the NGR, who have the technology already; or captured force fields from Naruni.

They destroy all alien tech as per canon refrences . So there goes the " they got it from the aliens " explanation .

NGR has "limited" trade agreement with the CS . And it has been said that they are in fact holding some of the more powerful of thier tech back from the CS . ( Force Fields , composition of thier armors , Cyborg creations , among more notable things too )

Force field technology is probably out of reach of the CS scientists at this time, but that wouldn't stop them from experimenting, or even utilizing existing tech to protect special key places or top personel like the Emperer himself. A personal force field may indeed be made by other dimensional D-bees and highly illegal; but only a fool would arbitrarily throw such tech away out of hand. And the Emperor is no ones fool.

And when told to do something like destroy all Alien tech .. by general orders on the Emp's part .. you think a lowly grunt is going to disobey ?

Naw secretly the CS has a tech version of the Black Vault to put all the stuff they capture and and study.

Is that in one of the newer books ? I cant find that one anywhere heh.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Black Vault? Well kinda sorta. It's been out a little while, but I can't recall the exact date it was released.

[Lenwen]

Black Vault? Well kinda sorta. It's been out a little while, but I can't recall the exact date it was released.

Looks like I REALLY need to update my books now then . Just to keep up the canonocity of my games heh .

Would ya be able to tell me which books are more Coalition based then the others ?

[Ravenwing]

Black Vault? Well kinda sorta. It's been out a little while, but I can't recall the exact date it was released.

Looks like I REALLY need to update my books now then . Just to keep up the canonocity of my games heh .

Would ya be able to tell me which books are more Coalition based then the others ?

CS books:

Coalition States War campign Worldbook 11

CS navy: Sourcebook 4

Sourcebook 1 and revised.

The entire Burbs Adventure source book series

book one: Chi-town Burbs

Book two: Chi-town burbs: Firetown and the Tolkeen Crisis

Book Three: Chi-town Burbs: The black vault

Book four: Chi-town Burbs: The Vangaurd

Book five: Mercenary adventures:

Rifts Merc

Merc Ops:

Merc Town:

Coalition Wars 1-6

South America 1 and 2 WB 6 And 9

NGR and the new German republic. WB 5

Lone Star: WB 13


And as a side note the text on alien devices says " Destroy OR turn over to the proper authorities."

[The Beast]

Prior to the war, the CS had 36 total X-1000s from Triax, though SB1 states they were to be deployed. RSB1 has a brigade of 144 after the war. The CS has already reversed engineered Golden Age tech and made it into their own, so it's possible they've done the same with this mecha unit.

You forgot to add:

1)The CS has infinite resources and infinite production capabilities.

2)The CS has a top secret cloning facility that uses magic (unknown to anyone) that "spawns" more troops out of thin air.

There is such a facility, but there's no magic involved. It can be found right here.

5)The CS has a 6.5mil population, yet has lost just under a million soldiers in the magic zone, and still yet has an army that's stronger than ever in Tolkeen (see #2), AND able to maintain every base and post at full strength while simultaneously working all of the logistics to feed, water, equip, arm, and treat those all soldiers and the ones across NA. Not to mention has millions of "happy" citizens leftover... Most of which are mind melters...and most likely work in factories...

The original SB1 places the CS population at an estimate of 14 million.

[Lenwen]

Since I came back to the site and started reading on the posts , I've noticed alotta people are actually thinking that the Coalition states has stuff that is not cannon an they actually TRY to defend thier positions with out regaurd to how crazy thier talk seems to get . So far to date I've heard several things ...

2) - The CS has Force Fields .

3) - The CS can pull litterally Millions of troops from the burbs .. and CLEARLY Rifts Deebee's book says thier is not more then 21million people in north america TOTAL . Not just CS ... but Every male,female and child of EVERY Sentient Species IN North America .

#2 they do have force fields and have had force fields ever since sourcebook 1 and the revised SB1.
The CS has over 144 ultimax bots which includes forcefields (no book says they didn't include them).
So yes they do actually have them

#3 wrong.
No where in the D-Bee book does it say

thier is not more then 21million people in north america TOTAL

You seem to be the one that changes what is and isn't canon to fit your views.

The book says

There may be as many as 30-40 million people living in the entire continent.

Does not say "there is only".
Does not say "not more then".
Says MAY BE, so there may be more, there may be less, it gives a range for the GMs to play with as it should be as they shouldn't give a difinitive number that will only most likely end up getting ignored in a later book as usual.

First printing of black vault was July 2003, so it's not that new.

So then take 40 million divide by 3 and you get LESS then 21 million in just the "domain of man" in which is where the CS is based ..

Which is where I was getting that number from to begin with unless you count all the Vampires and Free Quebec an all the magic users in the North American setting as part of the CS itself ?

Logically ..

[Ravenwing]

Since I came back to the site and started reading on the posts , I've noticed alotta people are actually thinking that the Coalition states has stuff that is not cannon an they actually TRY to defend thier positions with out regaurd to how crazy thier talk seems to get . So far to date I've heard several things ...

2) - The CS has Force Fields .

3) - The CS can pull litterally Millions of troops from the burbs .. and CLEARLY Rifts Deebee's book says thier is not more then 21million people in north america TOTAL . Not just CS ... but Every male,female and child of EVERY Sentient Species IN North America .

#2 they do have force fields and have had force fields ever since sourcebook 1 and the revised SB1.
The CS has over 144 ultimax bots which includes forcefields (no book says they didn't include them).
So yes they do actually have them

#3 wrong.
No where in the D-Bee book does it say

thier is not more then 21million people in north america TOTAL

You seem to be the one that changes what is and isn't canon to fit your views.

The book says

There may be as many as 30-40 million people living in the entire continent.

Does not say "there is only".
Does not say "not more then".
Says MAY BE, so there may be more, there may be less, it gives a range for the GMs to play with as it should be as they shouldn't give a difinitive number that will only most likely end up getting ignored in a later book as usual.

First printing of black vault was July 2003, so it's not that new.

So then take 40 million divide by 3 and you get LESS then 21 million in just the "domain of man" in which is where the CS is based ..

Which is where I was getting that number from to begin with unless you count all the Vampires and Free Quebec an all the magic users in the North American setting as part of the CS itself ?

Logically ..

Again we direct you to the books listed before.

The CS is the dominant power of North America. This means they have the largest pop, the best resources,the best tech.

[dark brandon]

Since I came back to the site and started reading on the posts , I've noticed alotta people are actually thinking that the Coalition states has stuff that is not cannon an they actually TRY to defend thier positions with out regaurd to how crazy thier talk seems to get . So far to date I've heard several things ...

1) - The CS walls of thier fortress cities are up to 300ft thick .

2) - The CS has Force Fields .

3) - The CS can pull litterally Millions of troops from the burbs .. and CLEARLY Rifts Deebee's book says thier is not more then 21million people in north america TOTAL . Not just CS ... but Every male,female and child of EVERY Sentient Species IN North America .

4) - The CS has patrols roaming the outter area's of All its Walled Cities .. that can go into combat with an Astral Projected being .. ( utterly against the whole rule)

5) - They could go toe to toe with Lord Splynncryth in a toe to toe war .

6) - They have some kind of "pact" with the Xitixic .. ala the Gen Holmes situation . Which that whole thing just reeks of bad joojoo . ( Starvation for 1 , being in the Xitixic heart of the hivelands an NOT being torn to shreds dispite the numbers of the Xitixic as some proclaimed to be litterally over 1 billion at that time )

So .. My question is simply put logical and really quite genuine .
Where and which books does the CS get all these new toys , abilities , and food to simply toss out to feed thier burbs ( thier prospective military ) ?
Where does it say the Walls of the Cities are 300ft thick ?
Where does it state that the Astral Projected being can be attacked at all while astrally projected in the Cities ? And WHICH guns , ammo , Psionic powers , anything the CS has that can even effect the astral projections ?

They don't.

It seems to me more and more .. people simply want to just powercreep the CS .. while leaving everyone else .. in N.A. out in the dark an staying forever locked in thier current power setting ..

Why do that ?

Cause no one else in north america is A) described, thus cannot be power-creeped. B) Suck, and no one pays any attention to them, after all, nothing keeps them from being power creeped.

/thread.

[Lenwen]

Wouldent anyone think that the people of the burbs who dedicate thier lives to trying to get into the CS fortress cities ever find out that they are not ever going to be let in an are in fact simply put cannon fodder for the CS's military machine ?

After how many years the person who joined the CS military never show's back up or the family is still stuck in the Burbs rather then actually moving into the CS fortress cities wouldent this be common knowledge or close to it ?

Or am I misunderstanding the how the whole process works ?

Are the burbs millions of people , all men who are willing to become CS grunts ( for thier families right ?) well why does everyone also state there are millions of people in the burbs , effectivly trying to say that the entire burb population is in fact able to done CS war armors an fight when in reality it is prolly more like 1/4th the overall number that is ready to possibly do that ?

[The Beast]

Wouldent anyone think that the people of the burbs who dedicate thier lives to trying to get into the CS fortress cities ever find out that they are not ever going to be let in an are in fact simply put cannon fodder for the CS's military machine ?

After how many years the person who joined the CS military never show's back up or the family is still stuck in the Burbs rather then actually moving into the CS fortress cities wouldent this be common knowledge or close to it ?

Or am I misunderstanding the how the whole process works ?

Are the burbs millions of people , all men who are willing to become CS grunts ( for thier families right ?) well why does everyone also state there are millions of people in the burbs , effectivly trying to say that the entire burb population is in fact able to done CS war armors an fight when in reality it is prolly more like 1/4th the overall number that is ready to possibly do that ?

You're wrong, they do get let in (that is if they're regular humans, and not mutanted in any way). It's just that there's a tremendously long waiting list for that to happen. (The waiting list is 6 years according to RMB.)

Military service shortens the list, and likely allows for mutated humans to be permitted into the cities (not super-powered ones mind you, I'm talking registered psychics and those with unusual features). In all likelyhood, once the CS signs a recruit, unless said recruit fails to complete the military service honorably, the family would be allowed to reside within the cities, even if the recruit was KIA.

Not everyone who lives in the Burbs actually want to get in, some wouldn't join the military to be let in, and some wouldn't be allowed in. Also, of those who would join the military to shorten the waiting time, not all of them would be eligible. So no, the entire population of the Burbs is able to sign up, but the odds are that a much higher portion of them are willing to sign up than any city in the US of compareable size.

[MikelAmroni]

CS books:
Coalition States War campign Worldbook 11, CS navy: Sourcebook 4, Sourcebook 1 and revised, The entire Burbs Adventure source book series: book one: Chi-town Burbs, Book two: Chi-town burbs: Firetown and the Tolkeen Crisis, Book Three: Chi-town Burbs: The black vault, Book four: Chi-town Burbs: The Vanguard, Book five: Mercenary adventures, Rifts Mercenaries, Merc Ops, Merc Town, Coalition Wars 1-6, South America 1 and 2 WB 6 And 9, NGR and the new German republic. WB 5, Lone Star: WB 13.

You forgot WB 10: Juicers, which deals heavily with the CS, and Psyscape, which also deals heavily with the CS.
WB 22: Free Quebec deals with the CS, if only in terms of being used as a counterpoint to be compared to.
The bionics book has some info on them but not a whole lot. There are also a smattering of optional and official things in the Rifter, but I don't know what they all are. I don't remember if Fort Laredo is official or not, but it should be - its that kind of awesome.

[Talavar]

I believe Fort Laredo is non-canonical, which makes me glad because it's incredibly overpowered.

[Lenwen]

I believe Fort Laredo is non-canonical, which makes me glad because it's incredibly overpowered.

Which Book and/or Rifter is Fort Laredo in ?

[Talavar]

I believe Fort Laredo is non-canonical, which makes me glad because it's incredibly overpowered.

Which Book and/or Rifter is Fort Laredo in ?

Rifter 37.

Now that I've found it, I've been looking over it again, and I really don't like it. It's not the starship-level energy weapons the thing is bristling with, or even applying the GI Joe rule to walls - what really bugs me is that the writer basically gives the CS techno-wizardry, and whatever the psionic tech the Gizmoteer from South America 2 is called, to handle the magic & psionic abilities we've been discussing in other threads. Not only that, but they miss-apply them: one of the major defences is basically a TW protection circle around the entire base (and supposedly around every CS city) that protects against astral projection & teleportation. The problem with that is that protection circles don't protect against the things the Fort Laredo article claims they do.

Anyway, rant over, it's definitely not canon, so I'm happy.

[Lenwen]

You're wrong, they do get let in (that is if they're regular humans, and not mutanted in any way). It's just that there's a tremendously long waiting list for that to happen. (The waiting list is 6 years according to RMB.)

Military service shortens the list, and likely allows for mutated humans to be permitted into the cities (not super-powered ones mind you, I'm talking registered psychics and those with unusual features). In all likelyhood, once the CS signs a recruit, unless said recruit fails to complete the military service honorably, the family would be allowed to reside within the cities, even if the recruit was KIA.

According the Chi-Town Burbs , The CS offers its "implied promise with a mear wink an some words . Not with a written contract stating thier families get into the cities . Of course no such promise is put in writing , it is implied with a wink and a nod .
It further states that this practice generates Thousands of new CS recruits annually .
Not Millions as some would believe , but thousands .
It even says that people gather in families to wait and wait and wait for the CS to pick them to join in the fortress walls .
Further reducing the overall number of men/women the CS can draw upon for Coalition military duty .

As per the same book the wait list is 5-10 years for desirables , and 15-30 years for the undesireables ..

[rat_bastard]

You're wrong, they do get let in (that is if they're regular humans, and not mutanted in any way). It's just that there's a tremendously long waiting list for that to happen. (The waiting list is 6 years according to RMB.)

Military service shortens the list, and likely allows for mutated humans to be permitted into the cities (not super-powered ones mind you, I'm talking registered psychics and those with unusual features). In all likelyhood, once the CS signs a recruit, unless said recruit fails to complete the military service honorably, the family would be allowed to reside within the cities, even if the recruit was KIA.

According the Chi-Town Burbs , The CS offers its "implied promise with a mear wink an some words . Not with a written contract stating thier families get into the cities . Of course no such promise is put in writing , it is implied with a wink and a nod .
It further states that this practice generates Thousands of new CS recruits annually .
Not Millions as some would believe , but thousands .
It even says that people gather in families to wait and wait and wait for the CS to pick them to join in the fortress walls .
Further reducing the overall number of men/women the CS can draw upon for Coalition military duty .

As per the same book the wait list is 5-10 years for desirables , and 15-30 years for the undesireables ..

I think he's thinking of the CS juicer contract, which I believe does include a frank guarantee.

[Lenwen]

You're wrong, they do get let in (that is if they're regular humans, and not mutanted in any way). It's just that there's a tremendously long waiting list for that to happen. (The waiting list is 6 years according to RMB.)

Military service shortens the list, and likely allows for mutated humans to be permitted into the cities (not super-powered ones mind you, I'm talking registered psychics and those with unusual features). In all likelyhood, once the CS signs a recruit, unless said recruit fails to complete the military service honorably, the family would be allowed to reside within the cities, even if the recruit was KIA.

According the Chi-Town Burbs , The CS offers its "implied promise with a mear wink an some words . Not with a written contract stating thier families get into the cities . Of course no such promise is put in writing , it is implied with a wink and a nod .
It further states that this practice generates Thousands of new CS recruits annually .
Not Millions as some would believe , but thousands .
It even says that people gather in families to wait and wait and wait for the CS to pick them to join in the fortress walls .
Further reducing the overall number of men/women the CS can draw upon for Coalition military duty .

As per the same book the wait list is 5-10 years for desirables , and 15-30 years for the undesireables ..

I think he's thinking of the CS juicer contract, which I believe does include a frank guarantee.

Ahh ok if that be the case then prolly since its a frank guarantee bro .

But I think I was talking about the burbs more specifically .. since this is where the CS seems to generate MOST of its front line canon fodder troops at .

Juicers I thought were on a extreamly limited military plan as in extreamly low overall numbers in the military ?

[rat_bastard]

I cannot say for sure how many juicers the CS has, just that they have no shortage of people willing to sign up.

as for troops, the CS does not just get people looking into living in the tech city, the CS is offering the best deal in town. Think about it, lets say you are the dumbest grunt ever to put his thumbprint on a CS service contract, and throughout your training you never stand out in a single way that would get you a better posting.

You get
three square meals a day when it was likely you where malnourished if not starving before
pound for pound the best body armor available in NA when before you had the clothes on your fragile sdc back
two weapons that could melt tanks on their light setting
and 1700 credits a month that you can keep cause you have a roof over your head and food!

a single dead boy can expect to buy a farm, live in frugal prosperity if he survives his term of duty with or without the tech cities.

It's almost like there is a dead boys union or something.

[dark brandon]

I cannot say for sure how many juicers the CS has, just that they have no shortage of people willing to sign up.

as for troops, the CS does not just get people looking into living in the tech city, the CS is offering the best deal in town. Think about it, lets say you are the dumbest grunt ever to put his thumbprint on a CS service contract, and throughout your training you never stand out in a single way that would get you a better posting.

You get
three square meals a day when it was likely you where malnourished if not starving before
pound for pound the best body armor available in NA when before you had the clothes on your fragile sdc back
two weapons that could melt tanks on their light setting
and 1700 credits a month that you can keep cause you have a roof over your head and food!

a single dead boy can expect to buy a farm, live in frugal prosperity if he survives his term of duty with or without the tech cities.

It's almost like there is a dead boys union or something.

It's just as good if you take the juicer conversion. Not only that, but you will have 2 family members entrance into the fortified city, and detox if you choose to only serve 2 years...or, just go all out and get 5 members in and serve a life time (5 years), living like a super-man. This is a wanna-be juicers dream come true.

[The Beast]

I think he's thinking of the CS juicer contract, which I believe does include a frank guarantee.

Actually I was talking about normal humans. I don't have Chi-Town Burbs. Is that one of the novels, or a game book?

[Lenwen]

I cannot say for sure how many juicers the CS has, just that they have no shortage of people willing to sign up.

as for troops, the CS does not just get people looking into living in the tech city, the CS is offering the best deal in town. Think about it, lets say you are the dumbest grunt ever to put his thumbprint on a CS service contract, and throughout your training you never stand out in a single way that would get you a better posting.

You get
three square meals a day when it was likely you where malnourished if not starving before
pound for pound the best body armor available in NA when before you had the clothes on your fragile sdc back
two weapons that could melt tanks on their light setting
and 1700 credits a month that you can keep cause you have a roof over your head and food!

a single dead boy can expect to buy a farm, live in frugal prosperity if he survives his term of duty with or without the tech cities.

It's almost like there is a dead boys union or something.

It's just as good if you take the juicer conversion. Not only that, but you will have 2 family members entrance into the fortified city, and detox if you choose to only serve 2 years...or, just go all out and get 5 members in and serve a life time (5 years), living like a super-man. This is a wanna-be juicers dream come true.

Brandon what is the current number of juicers in the CS military does it state such in anybooks or anything of that nature ?
And 5 family members for 5 years of being a superman is really the best deal IF the CS keeps thier word ( or contract if it is a contract)

[dark brandon]

Brandon what is the current number of juicers in the CS military does it state such in anybooks or anything of that nature ?

It's never stated.

And 5 family members for 5 years of being a superman is really the best deal IF the CS keeps thier word ( or contract if it is a contract)

This would be a personal perspective, there is no canon to support either side.

[Lenwen]

So all in all then . The burbs at most can supply thousands of troops annually .

100% = 2.2 million burbs population .
10% = deebee's of some kind .
90% left .
90% divided by 3 ( 2 in 3 are going to be the "family" members waiting for the CS to move them in the Fortress city)
90% /3 = 30%
30% of the burbs are going to be able to serve in the CS military branches .
30% of 2.2 million = 660,000 troops from the burbs total as the Chi-Town burbs are right now . If you take in that many soilders all at once , you have to equipe them as they are divided up into thier respective Occ's .

And now you have a Burbs population of 1,540,000 people .. none of which you can draw on for active military survice in the CS war machine .

Meaning you have now depleated your "burbs" force multiplier soilders . In all of about a month . Course new people might come in an start the whole process over , but then the overall percent of the population able to join the CS war machine is going to get smaller and smaller every time due to the people who were left from the previous time the CS "drew" out the CS military able personel .
First time its roughly 1/3 out of a population of 2.2 million .
Second time it might be 1/5 out of a population of 3.3 million
Third time it might be 1/10 out of a population of 4.4million .
so on an so forth .

I do not see the "burbs" as being the end all be all for the explanation of the overall strength of the CS military . As it will eventually be not able to draw upon any since they have a population of "families" and the undesireable folks rather then the Population of nuthing but men an women who are able bodied people ready for combat .

[dark brandon]

90% divided by 3 ( 2 in 3 are going to be the "family" members waiting for the CS to move them in the Fortress city)

Where did you get this?

I do not see the "burbs" as being the end all be all for the explanation of the overall strength of the CS military . As it will eventually be not able to draw upon any since they have a population of "families" and the undesireable folks rather then the Population of nuthing but men an women who are able bodied people ready for combat .

There are CS offices in some towns (Such as the one in El Paso). While not in the book, with the speed CS is able to transport people, there is good chance (But not canon) that CS can get troops from all over NA, as long as there is a CS station there.

[Lenwen]

90% divided by 3 ( 2 in 3 are going to be the "family" members waiting for the CS to move them in the Fortress city)

Where did you get this?

Rifts : Adventure Sourcebook , Chi-Town "Burbs" Forbidden Knowledge .
Pg,13 .
"Since the wait may be years , they usually gather in Family clans . "

[dark brandon]

90% divided by 3 ( 2 in 3 are going to be the "family" members waiting for the CS to move them in the Fortress city)

Where did you get this?

Rifts : Adventure Sourcebook , Chi-Town "Burbs" Forbidden Knowledge .
Pg,13 .
"Since the wait may be years , they usually gather in Family clans . "

that's something new to me. I always pictured the burbs to be a place not necessarily where families go together, but heads of family go to wait for the OK by the CS then they send for the family. Only in the most dire situations would the whole family move there.

Learned something new.

[Lenwen]

90% divided by 3 ( 2 in 3 are going to be the "family" members waiting for the CS to move them in the Fortress city)

Where did you get this?

Rifts : Adventure Sourcebook , Chi-Town "Burbs" Forbidden Knowledge .
Pg,13 .
"Since the wait may be years , they usually gather in Family clans . "

that's something new to me. I always pictured the burbs to be a place not necessarily where families go together, but heads of family go to wait for the OK by the CS then they send for the family. Only in the most dire situations would the whole family move there.

Learned something new.

So you had thought that every single person in the burbs was in fact a human male or human female who were able to serve the Coalition as a soilder in one form or another with out limitations ?

Where did you think thier families were ?

[dark brandon]

90% divided by 3 ( 2 in 3 are going to be the "family" members waiting for the CS to move them in the Fortress city)

Where did you get this?

Rifts : Adventure Sourcebook , Chi-Town "Burbs" Forbidden Knowledge .
Pg,13 .
"Since the wait may be years , they usually gather in Family clans . "

that's something new to me. I always pictured the burbs to be a place not necessarily where families go together, but heads of family go to wait for the OK by the CS then they send for the family. Only in the most dire situations would the whole family move there.

Learned something new.

So you had thought that every single person in the burbs was in fact a human male or human female who were able to serve the Coalition as a soilder in one form or another with out limitations ?

Where did you think thier families were ?

Not necessarily human, the burbs describes that it's not all humans.

Most families I thought were still in their farms, towns, cities...Not all, but most.

The burbs I always figured was a place you didn't want your family to be. Most families that were in the burbs were there because they had no choice or were started in the burbs.

But obviously, my view on the burbs needs to change.

[Lenwen]

But obviously, my view on the burbs needs to change.

So then a fast question for ya if I can bro ?
What did you think the Burbs were ? I mean based off of what I read so far you had a thought about the burbs along the line of being nearly fully 2.2million people able to simply join the CS military on a whim or something ?

Can you explain to me what your view was of the burbs as a vast military force multiplier ( which the CS uses them for strategically of course )

I guess I can see partly your side if you DID believe the Burbs to be nearly fully nuthing but single people clammoring to join the CS military .. I mean that scenario would more then anything be able to "rationlize" the military explosion the CS had for the overall numbers of the Tolkeen/FQ war fronts ..

[dark brandon]

Lord knows I've made enough mistakes on things like this, but you do realize there is a picture of a man standing there arm in arm with a woman (I would assume wife) holding a baby? It also clearly states "places of ill repute" so I'm going to say there are plenty of women there (though men can work in the establishments too).

When I say humans or heads of family, I mean men and women, not just men, so there is not going to be a shortage of women in the burbs.

As for the man and women holding a child, I also mentioned that families can be started in the burbs and sometimes a family may end up moving to the burbs.

[dark brandon]

So then a fast question for ya if I can bro ?
What did you think the Burbs were ? I mean based off of what I read so far you had a thought about the burbs along the line of being nearly fully 2.2million people able to simply join the CS military on a whim or something ?

Not military. The burbs were full of people who wanted to be citizens. it's full of fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters...people who wanted to protect their family and move them to a safer place. So, they one day end up leaving the homestead on a pilgramage to sign their family up to be moved into the city. Being that not everyone can just drop everything and leave (especially if you have a family), the family generally stayed behind while the family member(s) wait to get the ok to move in the family into the fortress city.

Think about it, if you're a farmer, and your son just got killed by a creature, you decide to move them to the safest place you know of (Chi-town), you really don't have the money to just "go". You would probably go yourself, or send your daughter or wife to get the paper work started...maybe send them what you can until they can find work to take care of themselves (since it takes notoriusly long to get accepted)

Not everyone can be in the military (or should be, not everyone is military material). Not everyone in the burbs wants to get into the city. The books make note that when the vanguard were moved out, many of them stayed in the burbs/close to home (so you have families already set up generational there) and there are people who set up businesses and such.

Can you explain to me what your view was of the burbs as a vast military force multiplier ( which the CS uses them for strategically of course )

I would say if the CS really pushed, you probably have 1 million people who are looking to be citizens. Of that, probably 60% would be willing to join the military if it shortens the list to get the family into the CS....of that 60%, only probably 1/2 of that are physically and mentally able to join. Some are too old, out of shape, broken...Some could take a Juicer option, the rest are just SOL.

I guess I can see partly your side if you DID believe the Burbs to be nearly fully nuthing but single people clammoring to join the CS military .. I mean that scenario would more then anything be able to "rationlize" the military explosion the CS had for the overall numbers of the Tolkeen/FQ war fronts ..

It's not really "single" people either. People will and do cheat on their loved ones, fall out of love, fall into love...Your just as likely to find a father of a family there as you would a mother and in some cases a grandma or pa. The only thing the people of the burbs generally have in common is wanting to be CS citizens and live in the fortified cities.

[The Beast]

So all in all then . The burbs at most can supply thousands of troops annually .

100% = 2.2 million burbs population .
10% = deebee's of some kind .
90% left .
90% divided by 3 ( 2 in 3 are going to be the "family" members waiting for the CS to move them in the Fortress city)
90% /3 = 30%
30% of the burbs are going to be able to serve in the CS military branches .
30% of 2.2 million = 660,000 troops from the burbs total as the Chi-Town burbs are right now . If you take in that many soilders all at once , you have to equipe them as they are divided up into thier respective Occ's .

And now you have a Burbs population of 1,540,000 people .. none of which you can draw on for active military survice in the CS war machine .

Meaning you have now depleated your "burbs" force multiplier soilders . In all of about a month . Course new people might come in an start the whole process over , but then the overall percent of the population able to join the CS war machine is going to get smaller and smaller every time due to the people who were left from the previous time the CS "drew" out the CS military able personel .
First time its roughly 1/3 out of a population of 2.2 million .
Second time it might be 1/5 out of a population of 3.3 million
Third time it might be 1/10 out of a population of 4.4million .
so on an so forth .

I do not see the "burbs" as being the end all be all for the explanation of the overall strength of the CS military . As it will eventually be not able to draw upon any since they have a population of "families" and the undesireable folks rather then the Population of nuthing but men an women who are able bodied people ready for combat .

I'd like to know where you're getting these numbers from...

[Lenwen]

So all in all then . The burbs at most can supply thousands of troops annually .

100% = 2.2 million burbs population .
10% = deebee's of some kind .
90% left .
90% divided by 3 ( 2 in 3 are going to be the "family" members waiting for the CS to move them in the Fortress city)
90% /3 = 30%
30% of the burbs are going to be able to serve in the CS military branches .
30% of 2.2 million = 660,000 troops from the burbs total as the Chi-Town burbs are right now . If you take in that many soilders all at once , you have to equipe them as they are divided up into thier respective Occ's .

And now you have a Burbs population of 1,540,000 people .. none of which you can draw on for active military survice in the CS war machine .

Meaning you have now depleated your "burbs" force multiplier soilders . In all of about a month . Course new people might come in an start the whole process over , but then the overall percent of the population able to join the CS war machine is going to get smaller and smaller every time due to the people who were left from the previous time the CS "drew" out the CS military able personel .
First time its roughly 1/3 out of a population of 2.2 million .
Second time it might be 1/5 out of a population of 3.3 million
Third time it might be 1/10 out of a population of 4.4million .
so on an so forth .

I do not see the "burbs" as being the end all be all for the explanation of the overall strength of the CS military . As it will eventually be not able to draw upon any since they have a population of "families" and the undesireable folks rather then the Population of nuthing but men an women who are able bodied people ready for combat .

I'd like to know where you're getting these numbers from...

2.2million came from some one earlier in the posts ...

the overall % of each that I used came nearly Directly from a single book Chi-Town Burbs . A Family usually consists of anything from 3 to 5+ members and so I "averaged" down to 3 members for arguements sake .

The 2.2million as stated earlier was from the poster , The 3.3 million is me extrapolating upon that in a givin block of time that the burbs are eventually "growing"
Ditto on the 4.4million .

[Talavar]

As of RUE, the Chi-town Burbs have a population of 3 million and 15% of that are D-Bees. The 2.2 million is the RUE population of the fortress city.

[Ravenwing]

The Lone Star cloning facility has sample DNA from Chuck Norris.

What more does the coalition need?

Little known fact! During the Coming of the Rifts Chuck Norris, who was still alive, rescued 3/4ths of humanity and put them into his secret " Realm of Norris" Which he keeps the entrance to hidden, by his beard.

[Lenwen]

As of RUE, the Chi-town Burbs have a population of 3 million and 15% of that are D-Bees. The 2.2 million is the RUE population of the fortress city.

Deebee's living INSIDE the burbs !!

What is the Coalition comming to I tells ya !!!

[Talavar]

As of RUE, the Chi-town Burbs have a population of 3 million and 15% of that are D-Bees. The 2.2 million is the RUE population of the fortress city.

Deebee's living INSIDE the burbs !!

What is the Coalition comming to I tells ya !!!

What? Haven't there been D-Bees living in the burbs as long as the burbs have been described?

[Lenwen]

As of RUE, the Chi-town Burbs have a population of 3 million and 15% of that are D-Bees. The 2.2 million is the RUE population of the fortress city.

Deebee's living INSIDE the burbs !!

What is the Coalition comming to I tells ya !!!

What? Haven't there been D-Bees living in the burbs as long as the burbs have been described?

Prolly so .. I only have a couple books with which to go off of .

But I just cant picture a CS patrol .. in the burbs .. just cruising by a grp of 3 or more Deebee's ..

Especially the way some people on the baords say how zelously the CS protects its Fortress Cities , Some would say to allow a deebee in the burbs is close enough to do harm , litterally and figurativly ..

[The Beast]

ut I just cant picture a CS patrol .. in the burbs .. just cruising by a grp of 3 or more Deebee's ..

Especially the way some people on the baords say how zelously the CS protects its Fortress Cities , Some would say to allow a deebee in the burbs is close enough to do harm , litterally and figurativly ..

A group of three or more would likely be removed. But one or two might be ignored, depending on the patrol and the type of D-Bee in question, and if the D-Bee isn't causing trouble.

Now this position is all pre-war. I imagine after the war the CS patrols would be more ruthless when dealing with D-Bees in the Burbs.

[Dead Boy]

Wouldent anyone think that the people of the burbs who dedicate thier lives to trying to get into the CS fortress cities ever find out that they are not ever going to be let in an are in fact simply put cannon fodder for the CS's military machine ?

Actually it's stated in the earlier books that the waiting list to become a CS Citizen is 7 years, form application to swearing allegiance, though there are a good many that are not accepted even after their 7 year wait is up. If I recall right, they can either apply again, accepting another 7 year wait, or end up having nowhere else to go and end up permanent residents of the 'Burbs.

Those that sign up to become "cannon fodder" do so under the promise of being fast-tracked, getting CS citizenship for both themselves and their immediate family in just 3 years. This is noted in the text for the CS Juicers (I think borgs too in one of the books). The fast-tracking carrot was also used for general recruitment in the buildup for the Tolkeen War, (and yes, I was very disappointed when Palladium had the CS renege on that deal to the new recruits in Aftermath... very unnecessary thing to do just to remind people that the CS is supposed to be the bad guy in this game).

After how many years the person who joined the CS military never show's back up or the family is still stuck in the Burbs rather then actually moving into the CS fortress cities wouldent this be common knowledge or close to it ?

The CS has no reason to withhold the news of a soldiers death in the line of action. Especially if that fallen soldier enlisted to try to fast-track him/herself and family. Since the soldier failed to live up to his obligation of service for so many years the CS can renege on the offer, citing it as a clause of default. Consequently the family is then encouraged to offer up another son or daughter, mother or father to enlist to get the family back on the 3-year fast-track list. If they act quickly, they might even be able to get so they don't lose their place in line on the list too.

... am I misunderstanding the how the whole process works ?

Yes, but it's a forgivable faux pas.

Are the burbs millions of people , all men who are willing to become CS grunts ( for thier families right ?) well why does everyone also state there are millions of people in the burbs , effectivly trying to say that the entire burb population is in fact able to done CS war armors an fight when in reality it is prolly more like 1/4th the overall number that is ready to possibly do that ?

Not everyone on living in the various 'Burbs are yearning to become citizens of the CS. Many are on the list (regular or fast-track) for the first time, others have reapplied once or twice. Some have been rejected but have nowhere better to go and now call the 'Burbs their home. A significant number have moved there because that's where the jobs/customers are so they can make a buck, whether that money is to be made through a legitimate business or criminal activity. CWC pg. 200 says that's the main reason why d-bees move there; the work, often asking for just a third of what a human laborer asks for and taking on the more dangerous jobs. The same page says that 15-20% of the 'burbs' population is made up of d-bees and another 2-5% are "supernatural beings and/or creatures of magic", all of whom know they have no shot at becoming CS Citizens no matter how long they wait, so they obviously aren't there for that reason.

So back to your question, no, a full quarter of the 'Burbs population is unlikely to be willing to join the CS military so they can get they and their families on the 3-year fast-track list. Each 'Burb only has a human population base of 40-58% of Joe-blows and 15-20% who fall under the category of "Human warriors, mercenaries, and professional criminals. If tapped in a recruitment drive (like the one prior to the Tolkeen War), I would estimate that they would get 10% of these prospective candidates, or 5.5-7.8% of the 'burb population. To put that in prospective, of we look at the Chi-Town 'Burbs alone, which has a population of 3 Million (RUE 28), such a recruitment drive (for regular soldiers) would bolster the CS Army's ranks by 165,000 to 234,000 troops. Again, that's only for Chi-Town. There are 4 other fortress cities in the surrounding area alone, and Chi-Town isn't even the largest of these super-cities. Though to be fair, the others typically have a population of about 200,000 in their respective cities, and (if the ratio-trend of 2.2:3 hold) have a 'burb population of about 273,000. They question then becomes, "Just how many fortress super-cities does the CS have?" And to be honest, I can't say. But given the numbers above, and that it said the CS added about half a million troops to their standing army of one million (CWC 42, noting the number "in training"), they could have done that just by having recruitment drives in Chi-Town and Waukegan alone!

That answer your questions?

[Dead Boy]

Now that I've found it, I've been looking over it again, and I really don't like it.

Oh well. Can't make everyone happy.

... what really bugs me is that the writer basically gives the CS techno-wizardry, and whatever the psionic tech the Gizmoteer from South America 2 is called, to handle the magic & psionic abilities we've been discussing in other threads.

Actually CS Psi-Tek was officially introduced in the Psi-scape book, and though still in its early stages of development, the implications are stunning for the future of the Coalition.

Not only that, but they miss-apply them: one of the major defences is basically a TW protection circle around the entire base (and supposedly around every CS city) that protects against astral projection & teleportation. The problem with that is that protection circles don't protect against the things the Fort Laredo article claims they do.

A) I disagree in principle, B) the Anti-Magic Incursion Ring was my solution to the age old question of why someone hasn't just teleported a super nuke inside of Chi-Town already, or what a Psi-Ghost hasn't assassinated Prosek in his sleep, or other such similar scenarios, and most importantly, C) I never said it as an actual protection circle spell, but a kind of mysterious psychic/technological version that required a great deal of "outside consulting" to invent, with implications of secret Vanguard assistance. But, hey, its just a Rifter article; nothing binding or canon about it.

Enough on that. I am NOT getting into another petty three-page argument over one aspect of a Rifter article that will ultimately result in nothing but flaring tempers, raging egos, and mean-spirited insults. I learned my lesson last time! The personal rule is to make just one clarifying/defending comment and then let it go from there, PERIOD, (by doing otherwise, I unwittingly let the protracted argument sour the joy and thrill of getting published, though in my defense certain parties did nag and harangue the issue for a friggin' MONTH, not letting the issue go even when I did try to drop it.. but I digress). To the best of my knowledge, no opinion has ever been changed online, I suspect mainly due to the emboldening effect of internet-anonymity and minimal personal accountability. (And it also gave me a deeper understanding of why Kev doesn't actively post on his own boards.)