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So I think a lot of people see a blindingly obvious problem with the superior toughness of the zombies. The strength of the zombie horde is in its numbers and its mob attacks, not in the individual zombie's strength.

Here are some "quick fixes" to this issue. Take any or all that you like and mix and match them to make your game into the one you want.

1) and this is not optional IMO. REMOVE the natural from the natural 17+ needed to hit the head or neck of the zombie. Bonuses should count for this just like any other called shot otherwise as Dark Brandon (IIRC) said something like a parapaligic kid and a veteran marine both have the same 20% chance to hit. ALSO change it to the normal 12 to hit and put a -4 modifier on the dice roll to hit the “brain/neck” This means you have to get a 16 or higher to strike the brain/neck.

2) remove the "triple" 48-78 SDC needed to splat a zombie skull in one shot. The average 21 SDC and 18 HP adds to be 39 points needed to one shot a zombie with a head shot. Considering small caliber rounds do only half damage to zombies a .223 round would only do half of its 4d6+2 damage as is listed for the “assault rifle” That’s a roll of 2d6+1 SDC for your single shot to the head. Getting 39 points with that is pretty hard. See number 3.

3) Head shots do double damage same as the modified rule for combat I have always used in my games. So we start with 2d6+1 which maxes out at 13 SDC. Double this and you get 26. If you were to crit and add 13 again for a total of (26d+1)x 3 maxed out is 39 total SDC exactly enough to mist the zombie’s skull in one shot if you crit AND roll max damage.

With an average roll of 2d6+1 coming out to be 8 (doubled to 16 for headshots) you would only need three called shots to the head to kill (usually) an average zombie.

4)Still by the rules that would require 6 actions or 9 actions if you want to get your +2 strike bonus from aiming. Which is IF you hit the called shot to the head with all 3 shots. If you figure you have +3 to strike from WP bonus and PP bonus and need to hit the 16 it would require a 13 or better on the die which is a 40% chance to hit so 2 out of 5 shots will hit that’s 7.5 round up to 8 called shots (16 actions) needed to land 3. Its getting better but still that’s 2 people each taking 4 called shots to the head and burning up most or all of their actions for 2 melee. I cannot see it taking 20-30 seconds for 2 people to head shot down a zombie while using assault rifles. Can you? No so drop the additional action from the called shot that means it only take 8 actions 2 people 4 attacks each 1 melee 3 shots landing and do average damage.

5) if your still not satisfied (and you can tell I’m not) then lets take away the “half damage from small caliber rounds” for headshots only since the brain is a very damage sensitive organ I would have to say that a 4d6+2 .223 round would have a devastating effect to the zombie brain same way it does on a living human brain. So with that in mind the average roll of 16 SDC, doubled for a head shot is 32. All you need it two hits now and with 62 damage they will be going down left and right, and with a good damage roll or on almost any natural 20 you will one shot them. Still you only have a 40% chance to hit with a +3 to strike so it’s not like every shot is landing. Because of misses and low damage you could still spend 2-5 shots killing most zombies, or spend additional actions to aim and improve you chance to hit by 10% to save ammo.

Still tough critters if you dont know to take out their brain/decapitate them but now they don't take a sqad of men all unloading their entire mag to drop one of them so you actually have a chance of killing them before they bleet out that nasty moan of theirs.

Like I said take any or all of these and apply them to your game as you choose I think with all of them together you get a better (and more playable)depiciton of the cinematic zombie hoard we are used to.

Citizen Lazlo wrote:not bad, not necessary in the original manuscript, but good fixes to the official version.







and yes I AM going to keep comparing what I wrote to what was published.

I would love to see the original you wrote.

Citizen Lazlo wrote:Due to the contracts I signed with Palladium Books I am legally prohibited from distributing the original manuscript of Dead Reign.

... but it was awesome.

Thats fine. I'm just making some house rules. I'm sure you have played at least one game so as an more experienced GM I'm asking you to share some of the changes you would make to make the published version play more as you would run it again when and if you do.

Just your house rules as a GM in your own words please.

That goes for anybody who has run a game and experinced what doing the math makes me expect to see happen.

I know the natural 17 for the head/neck isn't popular, so I would run it with bonuses if there was a mix of characters with various levels of training, so that way you don't get the discrepancy with the trained FBI agents getting same chance as the FPS gamer champ to hit the head.

As I mentioned in the other thread, assault rifles don't fall under the small caliber pistol category, so they do full damage, so I don't want to bring that up here again (it would seem a little annoying, right? ). As for the one shot kill, I think as long as you're at least doing the full SDC of the head and HP it's a kill. There's no reason to require more than that anyway, since they would be dropped normally. However I have no problem using your "average SDC + HP" to allow a one shot kill, or at least dropping the zombie for the full hour like taking out the body (that would possibly create some interesting situations "I thought you killed that one!?").

here are some of my suggestions (since this thread is already set up for suggested house rules):

I have never really been a fan of anything requiring multiple actions (I use them since I never found a different way to handle it), so here's one of my suggestions (used across the megaverse). something that requires 2 actions normally (long burst, called shot, OR aimed shot) would only take one action, but until the character's next action, he/she is -5 to dodge (but can still parry as normal). Any attack that would normally take 3 actions (an aimed called shot) would still only take one, but the character can no longer dodge and is -3 to parry (until their next action).

This one I would only really use in Dead Reign. Melee attacks take one action whether your doing a called shot or not (it takes the same time to swing a bat at their head as their body, but it's harder to hit, 17+. With a gun you have to actually take a second to aim before firing). I mean the trade off there is being in the middle of a swarm swinging away, but you get your full PP and WP bonuses, plus your PS damage bonus, but you better really be good at parrying, or have someone help you get out if you get pulled down. Keep the rules about weapons getting stuck, though...cause that's kind of awesome.

Those are the changes I would most likely use. Here are a couple of optional ones that I would possibly use if I wanted a different feel (ACTION PACKED!!).

- lower the AR to 10-12 (depending on the state of the zombie)
- lower the head SDC (somewhere between Josh's and Kevin's version)

Jaguar Wong wrote:
This one I would only really use in Dead Reign. Melee attacks take one action whether your doing a called shot or not

I agree with the melee attacks but I also use an aimed called shot that takes two actions in all Palladium games. Just less confusing that way.

Jaguar Wong wrote:I know the natural 17 for the head/neck isn't popular, so I would run it with bonuses if there was a mix of characters with various levels of training, so that way you don't get the discrepancy with the trained FBI agents getting same chance as the FPS gamer champ to hit the head.

As I mentioned in the other thread, assault rifles don't fall under the small caliber pistol category, so they do full damage, so I don't want to bring that up here again (it would seem a little annoying, right? ). As for the one shot kill, I think as long as you're at least doing the full SDC of the head and HP it's a kill. There's no reason to require more than that anyway, since they would be dropped normally. However I have no problem using your "average SDC + HP" to allow a one shot kill, or at least dropping the zombie for the full hour like taking out the body (that would possibly create some interesting situations "I thought you killed that one!?").

here are some of my suggestions (since this thread is already set up for suggested house rules):

I have never really been a fan of anything requiring multiple actions (I use them since I never found a different way to handle it), so here's one of my suggestions (used across the megaverse). something that requires 2 actions normally (long burst, called shot, OR aimed shot) would only take one action, but until the character's next action, he/she is -5 to dodge (but can still parry as normal). Any attack that would normally take 3 actions (an aimed called shot) would still only take one, but the character can no longer dodge and is -3 to parry (until their next action).

This one I would only really use in Dead Reign. Melee attacks take one action whether your doing a called shot or not (it takes the same time to swing a bat at their head as their body, but it's harder to hit, 17+. With a gun you have to actually take a second to aim before firing). I mean the trade off there is being in the middle of a swarm swinging away, but you get your full PP and WP bonuses, plus your PS damage bonus, but you better really be good at parrying, or have someone help you get out if you get pulled down. Keep the rules about weapons getting stuck, though...cause that's kind of awesome.

Those are the changes I would most likely use. Here are a couple of optional ones that I would possibly use if I wanted a different feel (ACTION PACKED!!).

- lower the AR to 10-12 (depending on the state of the zombie)
- lower the head SDC (somewhere between Josh's and Kevin's version)

Thanks for the reminder about the rifles I must have missed that part I figured the zombies had a kind of blow-through partial invulnerability like the scarecrow has even to these lower caliber fast moving cartridges.

I like you other changes too, but I would still leave the unaimed called shot as 1 action though adding your house rule dodge penalties would be a good balance.

Once you get rid of the flat 20% to hit and the 2 actions for called shots to the head you actually have a playable zombie apcolypse game.

Thanks for the ideas.

I just use Kitsune's Netbook of Modern Firearms for damages and rules. Discovered it back when HU2 was the old blue cover version, and never looked back once I found it. A snippet is as follows:

Double Tap: Law enforcement personnel are trained to use this mode of firing a pistol. Bonuses are per a burst (so if you go with the old +3 aimed/+1 burst rules of the old HU2, you get +1), uses one attack, but fires 2 bullets and requires two strike rolls (first roll is at full bonuses, second roll is at -2), roll damage twice if both hit, or just damage once if only one hits.

Example (using old HU W.P.s/rules, since I don't have DR): A police officer fires a 9mm double tap at a zombie's head. First level W.P. in Automatic Pistols (+3/+1), the first shot is at +1, and the second shot at -1 (burst bonus), requiring a 16 or higher to hit the head (the old called shot requires 12 or higher at -4, 16 or higher). The two strike rolls come up 15 and 17 (which, after the bonuses/penalties, comes out to 16 and 16). Damage is then rolled, 3D6 and 3D6, getting a total of 20 damage (10 on each 3D6).

Three round Burst: Those of pulse weapons, or current M16 models, uses one attack, fires 3 rounds, does the listed damage x2, but uses single shot bonuses.

Example: Soldier with first level W.P. Semi & Fully Automatic Rifles (+3/+1), fires her M-16 at a zombie's head. 16 or higher (again, called shot at -4), rolls as if firing a single shot and comes up 15 (so with the +3 bonus, it becomes a modified 18). Damage is rolled, 5D6, 15 damage (using the average of 30), doubles to 30.

Sure, this makes firearms deadlier, but just by looking through the various weapon damages/burst rules (there are more that I haven't listed, check out the site), I found it more sensible than Palladium's "X type of burst fires Y% of the clip, as long as it has more or less than Z number of bullets."

Citizen Lazlo wrote:... but it was awesome.

just a guess...do you think its possible that the announced DR-sourcebook(s) actually will contain more of your original material? that would be an easy way for PB to a) get DR-sourcebooks out the door and b) make those happy who wanted the original vision of DR.

I concur that the zombies as written are very tough to take down in any expedient sense. As much of a potential bummer that it is, I think it makes a certain amount of sense. When confronted by player gripes to their resiliency, I equate killing a zombie with smashing through a piece of furniture in the sense that collateral damage that might be the death of any mortal doesn't even factor in when dealing with zombies. When shooting one in the head, zombies aren't concerned with any kind of head trauma, swelling or even partial obliteration of the brain and keep on coming.

Total destruction or no destruction is what it boils down to.

Still, I dig reading other people's house rules and think the ones posted so far are nothing short of awesome. I just might try 'em out for a zombie slaughterfest at some point! Truth be told, I never thought of using a stale baguette before...

I also highly recommend Kitsune's gun rules. They have been my standard for ages, and are complete enough to cover most guns you want to add from RL without too much bickering.