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Smashed wrote:

rat_bastard wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:

rat_bastard wrote:According the the article "Operation Holy house" which by the way is official material, u rounds damage vampires normally.

In which Sourcebook, World Book or Rifter is that one in (Please give an Issue Number if it's in a Rifter)??

P.S: I don't have all of the Rifters if that's where it's at, only about 65-70% of them.

rifter 34 according to the index.

Do you have an idea where in the article it says that I've been reading through it and can't seem to find it.

Yeah, thats been pointed out.

Korbl wrote:what if U-rounds are dense enough to break their skin and invulnerability but don't actually do damage n and of themselves? basically a deep scratch that they may barely notice?

They're either vulnerable to a particular substance or not.

They can easily withstand super-MDC causing events such as Nukes, so it's the metal that's doing it.

Smashed wrote:Palladiumally, the books say that U-Rounds affect them.
That means that U-Rounds damage them.

Unless there is some clarification somewhere else, the text in Triax is vague/poorly written enough that it you can't just say that U-rounds overcomes the invulnerability of vamps and werewolves.[/quote]

Sure I can.
Watch:
"U-rounds overcome the invulnerability of vamps and werewolves."

It is perfectly reasonable to assume that the text is simply saying that vampires and werewolves are effected by U-Rounds ability to prevent healing and thats it.

No, it's not.
Because what would be the point in going out of your way to include creatures that can't actually b harmed by the weapon?
It says they're affected by u-rounds, with no disclaimers saying that this is restricted only to the regeneration impairment.
So they're affected.

Barring any clarification to the contrary, that's how it works.

If there is clarification somewhere else please share the book and page number its located.[/quote]

Smashed wrote:As far as the game mechanics go, that is why I thought there was the third option of an alloy. Why wasn't it mentioned? Probably because the monster that WB5 focuses on is gargoyles.

I found myself essentially forced to include that third choice as an option in order to cover all the bases; however, my personal opinion is that Occam's Razor serves us best here, and the simplest explanation is that Uranium all by itself, and with or without a radioactive component, can pierce the skin of the otherwise magically invulnerable.

Despite the fact that I allowed the third, "Alloy" choice as an option, there's simply no evidence whatsoever that other materials are blended into the U-Rounds.

The Galactus Kid wrote:

Sarael wrote:As vamps and weres are immune to radiation, I would have to say that U-rounds do nothing to them. U-rounds were designed more with things like gargoyles and dragons in mind, not vampires or lycanthropes.

Triax is clear that its not the radiation that damages them, but rather the material. Not to mention that vamps and werecreatures are specifically mentioned.

That's an interesting point there. I still don't agree that Vamps and Weres are vulnerable to it. (Note: We all know that PB screws up on editing at times and I feel that this may have been one of those times at the inclusion of two creatures that are immune to all normal weapons except their listed weaknesses.

Marcethus wrote:That's an interesting point there. I still don't agree that Vamps and Weres are vulnerable to it. (Note: We all know that PB screws up on editing at times and I feel that this may have been one of those times at the inclusion of two creatures that are immune to all normal weapons except their listed weaknesses.

Yep.

Dr. Doom III wrote:

Marcethus wrote:That's an interesting point there. I still don't agree that Vamps and Weres are vulnerable to it. (Note: We all know that PB screws up on editing at times and I feel that this may have been one of those times at the inclusion of two creatures that are immune to all normal weapons except their listed weaknesses.

Yep.

Ditto. It doesn't help any that palladium has a hard time putting out 2nd edition material of their previous printings. Instead they just reprint the old material and the same arguments resurface as new players join into the game. Seriously, I've been going over the whole vampire/werebeast conundrum before even writing in this post or the other post that is roughly about the same thing. I am glad for the 2nd edition version of the Rifts main book and Sourcebook 1, and I'm certain they are going to bring out revised versions of the world books at some point. Just the question is, will it be in time?

Colt47 wrote:

Dr. Doom III wrote:

Marcethus wrote:That's an interesting point there. I still don't agree that Vamps and Weres are vulnerable to it. (Note: We all know that PB screws up on editing at times and I feel that this may have been one of those times at the inclusion of two creatures that are immune to all normal weapons except their listed weaknesses.

Yep.

Ditto. It doesn't help any that palladium has a hard time putting out 2nd edition material of their previous printings. Instead they just reprint the old material and the same arguments resurface as new players join into the game. Seriously, I've been going over the whole vampire/werebeast conundrum before even writing in this post or the other post that is roughly about the same thing. I am glad for the 2nd edition version of the Rifts main book and Sourcebook 1, and I'm certain they are going to bring out revised versions of the world books at some point. Just the question is, will it be in time?

What is the Vampire/Werebeast conundrum??

(If you're asking about Vamps/Weres vs. U-Rounds, I'm pretty sure that this is the first time I've seen it here.)

Every time the same questions are asked by new people who join in at the RPG club at college when we play using Rifts Vampire Kingdoms. They look at the book and ask why the vampires are immune to super tech even though the last couple of demons that had traditional weaknesses and were supposedly invulnerable to standard weapons could be harmed by them. The vampire was already pretty powerful as is, couldn't be killed permanently by the things that could harm them anyway (with the exception of running water and sunlight), so it seemed kind of like a pointless immunity. After being a part of the RPG club for five years now, and having to deal with this same subject repeatedly, there definitely is something "wrong" with how Kevin did the rulings on the Rifts Vampire. So to correct it, we've made it so that vampires take MDC damage from super tech as SDC/HP damage. TO tell you the truth it has made the game run a lot smoother, and ironically the change solves the issue with U-rounds presented here.

Basically, if the vampire can take MDC damage as SDC/HP damage: as long as the U-round deals mega-damage it penetrates the vampire and it reduces the regeneration.

In previous games I have used DU rounds as wriiten in the book. Even though I find the theory given vor effecting supernatural creatures silly. If I ever run another game of Rifts I would probably not allow them.

Sureshot wrote:In previous games I have used DU rounds as wriiten in the book. Even though I find the theory given vor effecting supernatural creatures silly. If I ever run another game of Rifts I would probably not allow them.

Mechanically there isn't anything wrong with DU rounds and U rounds doing what they do to supernatural creatures. Technically speaking, all supernatural monsters are silly as there is no real reason for why they function the way they do and on the levels that are presented. How does a creature regenerate from being blasted to a pile of bloody body parts, or throw blasts of lightning that can fry people where they stand?

The whole definition of Supernatural is something beyond the bounds of nature, and radioactive bullets slowing down super regeneration is just another extension into the supernatural world.

Sureshot wrote:In previous games I have used DU rounds as wriiten in the book. Even though I find the theory given vor effecting supernatural creatures silly. If I ever run another game of Rifts I would probably not allow them.

DU rounds only do more damage to what they hit, so it is not silly for them to do more damage to everything including the SN.
If you meant to say U-Rounds and their effects, then be more careful what you write.