Forums of the Megaverse®

duck-foot wrote:

rat_bastard wrote:A Crystal ball to locate him, and a teleport lesser and an explosive to kill him.

the hard part is the crystal ball...

your forgetting all the psychic advisors that would know your coming

Teleport lesser doesn't teleport a person; it teleports an object. It's basically transporting a bomb to his location. I actually think this method would be the most workable. Sure, the CS psychics would be warned by 6th sense, but only once the bomb or bombs popped in. In the event that a Palladium fantasy-style crystal ball is unavailable (a pretty good chance) you could also use the Locate spell, though that would require a magic-user who's met Prosek (perhaps equally difficult to accomplish).

One possible monkey in the wrench for all these plans is the Clairvoyance psionic power. The CS has people who would probably have this ability, and they could potentially get warnings of anything that's going to happen. The same is true of a lot of major powers in Rifts, something Palladium hasn't done a lot with. Wouldn't the CS create the department of future analysis, or something like that, and have a dozen psychics a round the clock peering into the future for possibly threats? The same would likely be true of any magic using nation - they've got psychics too, as well as the spell Oracle, which does the same thing. You'd think a significant number of people being able to see the future with some degree of reliability would have an effect on the game world, but it hasn't seemed to.

Vrykolas2k wrote:Clone Rosie O'Donnell and send her after him...

ooyvay...that's almost TOO cruel for him...heck that's almost too cruel for Osama bin Laden...

A Black Marker. it may take people years to "Forget" the man but it worked for Stalin.

Crazy Lou wrote:

dark brandon wrote:There has only been 1 possible attempt on his life. It was in siege on tolkeen where they had sent in an Auto-G to try and userp or just kill him (I forget). Either way it was unsucessful.

Auto-G????

Check the original Rifts main book for the first mention of it. Other than that, I think it appears in Merctown or maybe one of the Coalition Wars books.

/Sub

Naruni could take out the entire CS.

/Sub

You guys really want to kill Prosek, huh?

Assuming that your PC's don't worry that the cure is worse than the disease, here's how you do it. You need to isolate Prosek and make sure he's where you want him to be. It takes about six months of recon to do this right, so hang on.

Step One: You need to get a complete map of Chi-Town, so you hire a Wilderness Scout unaffiliated with your group to map it. The first thing you need to do is plan your escape route.

Step Two: You need enough PPE to have a Wizard cast World Bizarre in the streets of Chi-Town itself, and cover enough area that everyone will be going crazy and panicking. Make sure that you pay this wizard enough money to make sure he looks like Alexander Duncson. huh???? Why would you do this? There is a method to my madness.

Step Three: The wizard casts ID Alter Ego on himself and teleports away, leaving the ID alter ego to fend for itself with magic items that are highly expendable and explode when used, however, they only harm people of diabolic and miscreant evil alignments.

Step Four: Id Alter Ego tells the coalition what the Wizard did, because he opposes the wizard. He'll be busy trying to escape, but that's okay. This guy's long gone by now.

Step Five: While all of this chaos is going on, the PC's are busy planting smoke bombs throughout Chi-Town. Just smoke bombs. Nothing lethal. But hundreds and hundreds of them.

Step Six: When the World Bizarre looks like it's starting to die down, and the coalition has tracked down the Id Alter Ego and slain it, if it hasn't winked out. (The ultimate goal here, to continue to force them to look for it.)

Step Seven: The armies and police of Chi-Town are now in the street, and fully mobilized. Detonate the Smoke bombs. This will throw the city into abject chaos. While the Coalition tries to contain the panic, and all the streets are blocked by varying armies, platoons, police, and howling people, the PC's enter the palace dressed in Coalition uniforms along the Coalition's preplanned escape route for the Emperor, since he'll be moved to a secure location and by now, the PC's should have done enough recon to know JUST what that route is. They bring along a special package.

Step Eight: Fight Prosek and his bodyguards with the Spell Scramble Radio Signals Active and the city in complete and total chaos. Kill Prosek first and make sure you detonate a whole bunch of smoke bombs. Cease to care about the bodyguards once he's dead.

Step Nine: Shove YOUR Robot duplicate of Prosek out of the smoke after the bodyguards are all incapacitated or dead, and teleport out of there with every spare PPE Crystal you can find.

Step Ten: Relax, and rule the Coalition in secret. It will take twenty years, but eventually, they'll be good aligned, peace loving, Splugorth killing people with mickey mouse faces on their helmets.

It's almost impossible for random characters to actually get into Chi-town, and just shy of completely impossible for magic-users to do so. Then, even if you were able to get into the fortress city itself, different levels have higher security clearances - it would be beyond credulity that the CS would let some wilderness scout into their highest security levels, let alone a group of magic users. Simply getting into these levels of Chi-town would be a major challenge, let alone placing smoke bombs, or getting access to Prosek at any time. Also, a robot duplicate won't fool CS psychics, and at 20 foot radius per level, World Bizarre would need to be cast by a level 200 wizard to effect even an entire small city.

That's the hard part for anyone who would want to assassinate Prosek - getting access to him. His palace is his secure location; the subterranean levels of Chi-town, where the emperor & highest government functionaries live, are effectively the most secure bunker in Rifts.

Scott Maxwell Operator wrote:A group of high placed republican infiltrators some you make come to find out have been all along acting on info that is time sensitive have to fact before contacting there high ups and give the green light to the assassins team.

- This is not that far flug seeing how they had a assassins team kill the first head of the Fed of magic. So they have the means to kill the CS leader.

Where is this piece of information?

Uhh, Talavar, you know you can just cast a spell called "Mask PPE" and all your PPE will be masked, and if anyone asks you why you're carrying a big bag of PPE crystals, you tell them you killed some mages and have to turn them over to your superior officer. If the PC's are SMART, all things are possible. If the PC's are STUPID, and don't prepare, YES, they will DIE. Remember, the Coalition thrives on FEAR. This can be used AGAINST them as well as to their advantage. Remember also that a mage in full environmental armor A) Cannot cast spells and B) They can't sense how much PPE he has either. Just pop the faceplate when you want to cast spells.

The only thing that can really putz this plan is if every single guard Prosek has is a Nega-Psychic, and if you've done your recon, you should already know who's on the guard team, who you need to kill, and who you need to impersonate.

You give this tyrannical jackboot state too much credit. They love overwhelming force. They suppress the creativity of the citizenry. That means your average coalition soldier is really not very creative. Remember, the Coalition is a classic example of "If the only tool you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail."

It's just a matter of finding the right tools and teleporting out of there.

Trust me. I used to play Shadowrun for years. A good plan and the right tricks are everything. I'm certainly not suggesting the PC's fight the entire coalition army.

If all the CS has in terms of security is a uniform check, they're in trouble. I would expect some sort of ID scan at the very least to enter the fortress city, and some sort biometric information - fingerprints, retina scan, colonic map, DNA, etc. - to enter the high security areas. Just because you show up in stolen uniforms they aren't going to let you in.

Mask PPE is a psionic power, not a spell, so you'd also need Mask ISP & Psionics, and characters that are both magic users and at least minor psionics with those 2 powers.

Even CS officers don't get to keep PPE batteries - those'd be taken for destruction as soon as the characters reported for admission to the fortress city, and would certainly never be allowed into the high security sections of the fortress city, assuming the characters found some way of getting access themselves.

Full environmental armour hampers spell-casting, but nothing says it prevents anyone from sensing a mage's PPE. Popping the face plate also isn't enough - you'd still suffer from the spell-casting penalties.

I'm no fan of the CS, and while they thrive on fear, they also thrive on paranoia. This plan basically requires several things that are nearly impossible to achieve: the PCs must get advanced knowledge of the most secure levels of Chi-town, they must get advanced knowledge of the security forces around Prosek & their time tables, the PCs must then get access to not only the fortress city but also the most secure sections of it while simultaneously concealing their magic & psionic abilities for long stretches of time. You never addressed my issues with the rest of your plan, such as needing a level two hundred magic user, and provoking Prosek to move from the secure location he lives in to one that could only be less secure.

Let's assume the PC's are not stupid enough to run in without the appropriate ID cards and fingerprint checks.

Let's not forget that a single psi can make them think "These aren't the people you're looking for." Jedi Mind trick still goes a long way.

Even CS officers don't get to keep PPE batteries. You're correct. The lie only needs to be believable. You seem to be forgetting one important fact. 75 percent of the CS can't read at all. What, you're going to show them your paperwork? Good luck in getting someone to understand it. The rules and regulations for such an organization where 75 percent of the people can't read are going to be slipshod at best, no matter what the technology is. You have to do six months of recon and exploit the security holes.

The other thing is once all these smoke bombs go off, the streets will be FILLED WITH PEOPLE, panicking and shooting each other with World Bizarre while the wizard casts Id Alter Ego and departs. Remember, you're dealing with a state where hatred of D-Bees runs rampant. Anything that suddenly looks like a monster is going to be the subject of massed small arms fire.

The long stretches of time are pretty easy, and psionics don't have to conceal themselves in CS territory while they're wearing Coalition colors. You really underestimate the amount of resources available to a group of mid-high level characters in this game.

If the entire city is bloated with smoke grenades and the streets are filled with people, what you will have is a massacre followed by a massive witchhunt, and total chaos and confusion. Technically, you could even do this WITHOUT the uberwizard, but a lot more people would die. "Attention, I have planted ten thousand bombs in Chi-Town, I suggest you evacuate" is also a possibility. Usually, when this happens, the guard in all but THE most secure locations becomes light while they devote troops to locating the threat. Plus, if you can actually plant ten thousand bombs (Not as hard as it looks), you have to have ten thousand guys disarm them all.Typically, most governments will move their top personnel OUT, especially a fascist one. Prosek has to have a secret way out of the city, just like the President of the US has a secret way out of the White House. And we know that Prosek WON'T be using teleportation or any of that stuff unless he has a really dark secret.

Personally, I kind of like the idea that Prosek is really some form of hideous dimensional monster with a very good trick, or a robot, or something of that nature, but canonwise, it's not true.

No plan is foolproof. In the end, every secure location can be compromised. And the more secure people think it is, the better the chance that a small group of people can slip in and do a great deal of damage.

Crazy Lou wrote:

dark brandon wrote:There has only been 1 possible attempt on his life. It was in siege on tolkeen where they had sent in an Auto-G to try and userp or just kill him (I forget). Either way it was unsucessful.

Auto-G????

It's in Coalition Wars 3

Balabanto wrote:Step Nine: Shove YOUR Robot duplicate of Prosek out of the smoke after the bodyguards are all incapacitated or dead, and teleport out of there with every spare PPE Crystal you can find.

They'd see through this pretty quick. The robot won't appear human to see aura, every soldier with infrared optics (cyborgs, environmental body armor, power armors, etc) will see he isn't human. Plus the robot won't be able to dodge his physician forever. Prosek is too old and too VIP for a doctor to let him skip appointments. If he becomes a problem the doctor will go to his son, or generals and get everyone to pressure him into going.

Balabanto wrote:Let's assume the PC's are not stupid enough to run in without the appropriate ID cards and fingerprint checks.

Let's not forget that a single psi can make them think "These aren't the people you're looking for." Jedi Mind trick still goes a long way.

Even CS officers don't get to keep PPE batteries. You're correct. The lie only needs to be believable. You seem to be forgetting one important fact. 75 percent of the CS can't read at all. What, you're going to show them your paperwork? Good luck in getting someone to understand it. The rules and regulations for such an organization where 75 percent of the people can't read are going to be slipshod at best, no matter what the technology is. You have to do six months of recon and exploit the security holes.

The other thing is once all these smoke bombs go off, the streets will be FILLED WITH PEOPLE, panicking and shooting each other with World Bizarre while the wizard casts Id Alter Ego and departs. Remember, you're dealing with a state where hatred of D-Bees runs rampant. Anything that suddenly looks like a monster is going to be the subject of massed small arms fire.

The long stretches of time are pretty easy, and psionics don't have to conceal themselves in CS territory while they're wearing Coalition colors. You really underestimate the amount of resources available to a group of mid-high level characters in this game.

If the entire city is bloated with smoke grenades and the streets are filled with people, what you will have is a massacre followed by a massive witchhunt, and total chaos and confusion. Technically, you could even do this WITHOUT the uberwizard, but a lot more people would die. "Attention, I have planted ten thousand bombs in Chi-Town, I suggest you evacuate" is also a possibility. Usually, when this happens, the guard in all but THE most secure locations becomes light while they devote troops to locating the threat. Plus, if you can actually plant ten thousand bombs (Not as hard as it looks), you have to have ten thousand guys disarm them all.Typically, most governments will move their top personnel OUT, especially a fascist one. Prosek has to have a secret way out of the city, just like the President of the US has a secret way out of the White House. And we know that Prosek WON'T be using teleportation or any of that stuff unless he has a really dark secret.

Personally, I kind of like the idea that Prosek is really some form of hideous dimensional monster with a very good trick, or a robot, or something of that nature, but canonwise, it's not true.

No plan is foolproof. In the end, every secure location can be compromised. And the more secure people think it is, the better the chance that a small group of people can slip in and do a great deal of damage.

Hypnotic suggestion requires a master psionic in the group now, and any psi-stalkers or dog boys you encounter are likely going to save. That and every use of it would flag that user to a pretty good range to every psi-stalker & dog boy in the area. Psionics do have to conceal themselves while in CS territory, unless they have an implanted, scanable security chip & tattooed barcode on their neck - wearing a uniform isn't nearly enough.

Because most CS soldiers can't read, they're going to follow their routines every time. In a military where most of the soldiers can't read any written orders, they're going to clearly have some method of compensating, unless you play them as the most incompetent military superpower in history. Having standard procedure being nearly sancrosanct works for this: average soldiers know what they're to do in almost every situation, and anything outside of those standard situations would be refused. Any soldiers who break standard procedure would be restrained, or shot if necessary - the CS has to worry about mind control & shapeshifters being used against their own troops after all. If you showed them your "written orders" allowing something that never happens, that alone would make them suspicious - in an organization where most people can't read, no one's going to be handing out written orders.

Getting ten thousand smoke bombs into a fortress city is ludicrous for a player group, let alone ten thousand actual bombs. What, did the emperor forget to close the screen door again? Even supposing you somehow managed this, the secure levels of Chi-town, where Prosek & the high ups live, is designed to survive a nuclear bombardment of the fortress city. Where would be more secure than that - his cabin in the woods?

Also assuming you could actual manage to get smoke bombs into the civilian areas of Chi-town - why would the streets suddenly fill with people? Inside MDC buildings is much safer than being out in the street, and if the people think they're under attack, they know there's nowhere to run - it's a fortress city, meaning totally enclosed. And you seem to be ignoring the fact that World Bizarre has a tiny area of effect for large scale use. With any realistic level character, you'd get a small section of one level of Chi-town effected by it. Chi-town isn't a standard city - it's a multi-level, enclosed environment. If there's a serious problem on one level, I'm certain the CS would simply seal it off from the other levels until they can send in military units in force to sort things out.

You've said that characters, given time, can plan for all these problems, but they have no way to get the information needed to make the plan work in the first place. Without first getting into Chi-town, they've got no access to its layout, its security, and its military defences. They aren't going to be able to fake military clearance of a high enough level that would get unrestricted access to the fortress city, and that's where all the resources they need to make a plan like this work are - the people they'd need to talk to/bribe/threaten, the samples of the security tech they'd need to duplicate or fake, etc. Without those resources they've got no way in, and without a way in, they can't get access to those resources.

How about a summoner casting summon pawn. A battle of wills (there is a chance that the emperor will lose), and then don't send him back to Chi Town. And if you make a logical list, like starting with his son, the generals, etc., you could replace the CS at Chi Town's entire senior staff with their less competant lackeys.

The summoning circle has a 1000 mile radius per level if in the same dimension, or it can be cast from another dimension. It is kinda steep on P.P.E., requiring 100 to cast. Maybe you could get a few volunteers to help donate some.

At second level, the spell could reach the emperor if he is in the continental U.S. and the caster is in the continental U.S.

Your problem is that the CS Vanguard will just summon him back. That's the main flaw in this plan. Of course, this still gives you 1-3 rounds to kill him, turn him into a gopher, or cast Id alter ego on him.

There is another way.

Option #1

Using some material from Trans-Dimensional TMNT, Go back in time and Assassinate the prosek family before there is a CS. Using this method to remove Duncanson would probably work as well. Both can be accomplished if 1 plans it right. Joe Prosek the 1st must be killed while still young and before he has had any children. Same goes for Duncanson. Yes I know this is not an origional idea. The Origional Terminator movie is the basis for this.

Option #2

Alternately the players could find a very attractive human woman (Possabily even a PC) and Have that character Seduce one or both of the prosek men. While in the mist of the tangled sheet tango, they place the N&SS Dim Mak on 1 or both Proseks who would think of the action as nothing more than part of the making whoopee. A few months down the road they both drop dead by/From causes unknown. This could even be combined with Option #1 with nobody being the wiser.

In fact merely finding a way to do eiher of the aboves could be the basis of an epic campign.

FreelancerMar wrote:Using some material from Trans-Dimensional TMNT, Go back in time and Assassinate the prosek family before there is a CS. Using this method to remove Duncanson would probably work as well. Both can be accomplished if 1 plans it right. Joe Prosek the 1st must be killed while still young and before he has had any children. Same goes for Duncanson. Yes I know this is not an origional idea. The Origional Terminator movie is the basis for this.

Everyone Kills Hitler on the First Trip, Rifts codicil?

FreelancerMar wrote:Using some material from Trans-Dimensional TMNT, Go back in time and Assassinate the prosek family before there is a CS. Using this method to remove Duncanson would probably work as well. Both can be accomplished if 1 plans it right. Joe Prosek the 1st must be killed while still young and before he has had any children. Same goes for Duncanson. Yes I know this is not an origional idea. The Origional Terminator movie is the basis for this.

If my players tried this, I'd allow it, and fill the power vacuum left by CS never coming to power with something much much worse.

FreelancerMar wrote:Alternately the players could find a very attractive human woman (Possabily even a PC) and Have that character Seduce one or both of the prosek men. While in the mist of the tangled sheet tango, they place the N&SS Dim Mak on 1 or both Proseks who would think of the action as nothing more than part of the making whoopee. A few months down the road they both drop dead by/From causes unknown. This could even be combined with Option #1 with nobody being the wiser.

I doubt Prosek Sr has any time for fraternizing with women. I get the impression that the President of the US has his entire day scheduled down to the minute, and meetings with family are very very brief, less than 10 minutes at a time. Maybe on very rare occasions he actually has time to sit down and eat a meal with them. I'd imagine in a state of constant war like the CS is in, Prosek Sr wouldn't even have that kind of luxury.

But I could see this working on Prosek Jr.

Prosek Sr has a wife. She was kidnapped by alex for many years until rescued by Coake and his allies. She now has two cybernetic fingers. Please read this stuff more throughly next time.

Got the answer Clone him! The two would destroy each other because they could not stand the other's assumptions of superiority!

Thread necromancy!

Actually, I was just going through the BoM, and I remembered the spell "Death Curse".

Question: Is it cumulative? If so, how is Prosek still alive? I'm sure more than a few mages would have cursed him and his line with their last breath, so the penalties should be significant.

Heck, even 1 casting would bring about some problems - Some very significant - so how does he deal with them?

Alternatively, this could be the reason all Prosek impersonators fail - they lack the tell-tale signs of such a curse, especially the unique aura.

I'll kill him...I'd hit him..with a rock...or something.

failing that.

a tiny net.

cyber-yukongil v2.5 wrote:I'll kill him...I'd hit him..with a rock...or something.

Thank you, Killer Croc.

I'd put a number of nukes around one of the less portectd major cities
and hold them hostage for the Emperor

Seeing so many of his people in peril Prosek would rush to sacrifice himself for them

csbioborg wrote:I'd put a number of nukes around one of the less portectd major cities
and hold them hostage for the Emperor

Seeing so many of his people in peril Prosek would rush to sacrifice himself for them

You overestimate our good friend the emperor...

Mark Hall wrote:

cyber-yukongil v2.5 wrote:I'll kill him...I'd hit him..with a rock...or something.

Thank you, Killer Croc.

DING, DING DING!!!!! we would have also accepted Black Betty as an answer...Black Betty.

Vanna, show him what he's won!

cyber-yukongil v2.5 wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

cyber-yukongil v2.5 wrote:I'll kill him...I'd hit him..with a rock...or something.

Thank you, Killer Croc.

DING, DING DING!!!!! we would have also accepted Black Betty as an answer...Black Betty.

Vanna, show him what he's won!

Is that game show something like "The Wheel of Price is Right?"

Crazy Lou wrote:Is that game show something like "The Wheel of Price is Right?"

That doesn't sound nearly as much fun as Family Feud Survivor.

Citizen Lazlo wrote:cholesterol

Dude, you said that already. I love your consistency.

I've already played out the scenario heh but all I would do is have the CS attempt to overtake Archie ... who in turn simply infiltrates thier military with one of his androids and have that 1 climb the ranks ... and then when he goes to meet the main main he would simply kill him .

Sorta like a sleeper agent of something akin to it at the very least ...

Why do you people need to complicate things?

Summon Pawn and a sharp knife is MORE than enough to do the trick.

Icy Anubis wrote:

dark brandon wrote:

Icy Anubis wrote:All those are reasons why I like my idea of slowly driving him insane. If you dont know what I am talking about refer to my post a little earlier in this topic. All the psychics, and guards in the world cant stop him from blowing his own brains out, because the voices in his head tell him to. Well, maybe they could, but not without constant supervision, and him becoming unfit for leadership.

Can you find the spell? There's probably a good chance wearing EBA or even being in the fortress city would negate the effects.

Maybe when I have access to the book next. I know it was in the book of magic. But dont remember what level. Checked my character sheet I have the item on, but I never got around to filling out the details. When I find it, I will let you know though.

The Spell is called Calling it a 5th Level Invocation.. 2 Mile/Level range, 5 Minute/Level Duration for 8 P.P.E.

Personaly I'd make a TW-Ley Line Magic Pigeon Device that creates and sends a Magic Pigeon messager to him with a message in Demogorgain every Round, then I'd build 12 of them and set then up in Atlantis, with messages going to all the high CS Brass 24/7.