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Temporalmage wrote:This spell stops bullets, energy blasts of all types, movement of all types, even sound can not pass through this area. The spell costs X PPE, but it don't matter if the spell stops a single hummingbird in flight, or a billion bullets (which fall harmlessly to the ground when the spell duration expires I might add) the cost in PPE is exactly the same.

This spell specifically breaks the laws of physics. "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". This goes out the window.

Wanna change those bullets to laser blasts? No prob. In the area effect the laser blasts simply disapate, going away. This applies to a single blast, or a full on barrage from a CS Battalion! The energy is negated, destroyed.

Without knowing what the spell is (way to support your argument), I can't read it.

However, the description of the spell isn't going to necessarily explain the physics behind the spell. Maybe the spell is simply a kind of energy redirection spell, it takes all the energy that enters the area and spreads it over an area, or even worldwide, raising the ambient temperature of the air by .00001 degrees. Or maybe the spell was put out there by an alien intelligence, knowing others would find it useful, and cast it, not knowing that the energy was being sent to the alien intelligence as food, or a means to help it store energy to prepare to break out of its prison.

There are lots of ways a magic spell could transfer energy (not destroying it) that the caster/players don't know about, because the writer wasn't thinking from a science standpoint and worried about explaining how the spell works within a world follow laws of physics.

As far as the law "for every action there is an equal and opposite action", that law may be flawed when applied to magic, because Newton was not living in a world where magic was known. If he was, he might have come up with a different law, or none at all.

LostOne wrote:
Without knowing what the spell is (way to support your argument), I can't read it.

Sorry for being lazy first thing in the morn. I'm nasty before my cappuccino!! LOL
The spell is Wall of Defense, pg 132 BOM. I thought that it was an area effect spell, but it's simply a wall, otherwise my earlier discription is accurate, and then some. (I blame my mistake on lack of cappuccino!! And yes, I'm an addict!)

LostOne wrote: However, the description of the spell isn't going to necessarily explain the physics behind the spell. Maybe the spell is simply a kind of energy redirection spell, it takes all the energy that enters the area and spreads it over an area, or even worldwide, raising the ambient temperature of the air by .00001 degrees. Or maybe the spell was put out there by an alien intelligence, knowing others would find it useful, and cast it, not knowing that the energy was being sent to the alien intelligence as food, or a means to help it store energy to prepare to break out of its prison.

There are lots of ways a magic spell could transfer energy (not destroying it) that the caster/players don't know about, because the writer wasn't thinking from a science standpoint and worried about explaining how the spell works within a world follow laws of physics.

As far as the law "for every action there is an equal and opposite action", that law may be flawed when applied to magic, because Newton was not living in a world where magic was known. If he was, he might have come up with a different law, or none at all.

Ok, now who's failing to support thier argument? Ok, I'm pulling your leg a bit.

The way I see it is simple. There is simply somthing unexplainable and magical about magic. That's why nobody but TW's can figure out TW stuff. Why ya gotta BELIEVE in magic for it to work. Why a strong disbelief; ALA the Nega-psycic of Beyond the supernatural; dispells spells and keeps them from working while in the area of effect simply by NON-BELIEF, even when not conscience of doing so. No ammount of science can explain a persons belief or non-belief as it directly or indirectly effects somthing. Oh sure you can theorize all you want. Heck I read an article that had scientists theorizing about God once, but that don't prove he/she/it exists or not. Ya simply take it on faith, one way or the other, and believe or not as you see fit.
You keep your science all you want. Postulate your theories, and explain your effects as makes you personally happy. Either way science is not able to explain magic or magical effects. And by using magic you CAN create or destroy energy, no matter what science says is possible or not.

looking at the spell....it summons a wall of energy that "stops projectiles in their tracks, suspended in mid air", " energy blasts are disspelled completely", as are magic forces. explosives and people are held frozen in place.

sounds to me like it absorbs and dissipates, meaning spreads out, the energy of the attacks or energy in the objects (even the energy accumulated due to gravitational force or metabolisms). as for the "one bullet or one million", the PPE is used to generate the wall of energy, and keep it going. energy absorbed from the attacks just builds up inside to make it infintesmially thicker.

The way I see it is simple. There is simply somthing unexplainable and magical about magic. That's why nobody but TW's can figure out TW stuff. Why ya gotta BELIEVE in magic for it to work. Why a strong disbelief; ALA the Nega-psycic of Beyond the supernatural; dispells spells and keeps them from working while in the area of effect simply by NON-BELIEF, even when not conscience of doing so.

a nega-psychic isn't protected by dis-belief. he/she is protected by a nullifying field, which was the result of high PPE being forced to find an outlet when the persons mental and physical development will not allow it to manifest as other powers. belief has little to do with it. there are nega-psychics native to rifts who do believe strongly in the supernatural. likewise there are people in BTS with strong belief that the supernatural does not exist, and yet are not negapsychics. so belief is not a major factor except as an empowering viewpoint.

glitterboy2098 wrote:looking at the spell....it summons a wall of energy that "stops projectiles in their tracks, suspended in mid air", " energy blasts are disspelled completely", as are magic forces. explosives and people are held frozen in place.

sounds to me like it absorbs and dissipates, meaning spreads out, the energy of the attacks or energy in the objects (even the energy accumulated due to gravitational force or metabolisms). as for the "one bullet or one million", the PPE is used to generate the wall of energy, and keep it going. energy absorbed from the attacks just builds up inside to make it infintesmially thicker.

The way I see it is simple. There is simply somthing unexplainable and magical about magic. That's why nobody but TW's can figure out TW stuff. Why ya gotta BELIEVE in magic for it to work. Why a strong disbelief; ALA the Nega-psycic of Beyond the supernatural; dispells spells and keeps them from working while in the area of effect simply by NON-BELIEF, even when not conscience of doing so.

a nega-psychic isn't protected by dis-belief. he/she is protected by a nullifying field, which was the result of high PPE being forced to find an outlet when the persons mental and physical development will not allow it to manifest as other powers. belief has little to do with it. there are nega-psychics native to rifts who do believe strongly in the supernatural. likewise there are people in BTS with strong belief that the supernatural does not exist, and yet are not negapsychics. so belief is not a major factor except as an empowering viewpoint.

There are MANY Fictional Universes where "magic" is merely just another form of energy that looks supernatural but can be duplicated by physics and super-science.

The Palladium Gaming System's version of "magic" is NOT one of them.
Palladium Magicks completely circumvent Physics in so may ways, shapes, and forms it isn't funny.
(Don't take my word for it; just start up another Thread and try to explain a Palladium Vampire, or Elemental, or any number of magical effects, strictly in terms of physics.)

glitterboy2098 wrote:looking at the spell....it summons a wall of energy that "stops projectiles in their tracks, suspended in mid air", " energy blasts are disspelled completely", as are magic forces. explosives and people are held frozen in place.

sounds to me like it absorbs and dissipates, meaning spreads out, the energy of the attacks or energy in the objects (even the energy accumulated due to gravitational force or metabolisms). as for the "one bullet or one million", the PPE is used to generate the wall of energy, and keep it going. energy absorbed from the attacks just builds up inside to make it infintesmially thicker.

Your assuming things that simply are not there in the books, to explain somthing you wish to believe, when the facts of Palladiums game system says your wrong. I won't bother to ask for a book and page number.

The way I see it is simple. There is simply somthing unexplainable and magical about magic. That's why nobody but TW's can figure out TW stuff. Why ya gotta BELIEVE in magic for it to work. Why a strong disbelief; ALA the Nega-psycic of Beyond the supernatural; dispells spells and keeps them from working while in the area of effect simply by NON-BELIEF, even when not conscience of doing so.

a nega-psychic isn't protected by dis-belief. he/she is protected by a nullifying field, which was the result of high PPE being forced to find an outlet when the persons mental and physical development will not allow it to manifest as other powers. belief has little to do with it. there are nega-psychics native to rifts who do believe strongly in the supernatural. likewise there are people in BTS with strong belief that the supernatural does not exist, and yet are not negapsychics. so belief is not a major factor except as an empowering viewpoint.

Um, wrong again. Page 57 of the Psyscape book:
Quote: In the days before the coming of the Rifts, a Nega-Psychic was an individual who refused to believe in magic, ESP, and the paranormal. Ironically, these individuals were themselves psychic, and thier "anti-paranormal" convictions fueled thier psionic potential to make them semi-impervious to psychic powers, magic and the supernatural. In many ways, the Nega-Psychic is another manifestation of mind-over-matter: "I don't beleive, therfore it does not exist, and I cannot be hurt by somthing that is not real"

Your take is contradictory to Palladium printed material, therfore as this conversation applies stricktly with Palladium material your statements have been proven false.

Temporalmage wrote:Um, wrong again. Page 57 of the Psyscape book:
Quote: In the days before the coming of the Rifts, a Nega-Psychic was an individual who refused to believe in magic, ESP, and the paranormal. Ironically, these individuals were themselves psychic, and thier "anti-paranormal" convictions fueled thier psionic potential to make them semi-impervious to psychic powers, magic and the supernatural. In many ways, the Nega-Psychic is another manifestation of mind-over-matter: "I don't beleive, therfore it does not exist, and I cannot be hurt by somthing that is not real"

Your take is contradictory to Palladium printed material, therfore as this conversation applies stricktly with Palladium material your statements have been proven false.

Way to selectively quote dude! You might want to highlight that, "Before the Coming of the Rifts," part, because the section continues:

"Of course, on Rifts Earth it is virtually impossible to honestly believe that supernatural beings, demons, dragons, magic and psychic abilities are not real," (Psyscape, pg 58).

It goes on to explain how the Nega-psychic actually works, at least in Rifts, which is a lot closer to how glitterboy2098 explained them.

Talavar wrote:

Temporalmage wrote:Um, wrong again. Page 57 of the Psyscape book:
Quote: In the days before the coming of the Rifts, a Nega-Psychic was an individual who refused to believe in magic, ESP, and the paranormal. Ironically, these individuals were themselves psychic, and thier "anti-paranormal" convictions fueled thier psionic potential to make them semi-impervious to psychic powers, magic and the supernatural. In many ways, the Nega-Psychic is another manifestation of mind-over-matter: "I don't beleive, therfore it does not exist, and I cannot be hurt by somthing that is not real"

Your take is contradictory to Palladium printed material, therfore as this conversation applies stricktly with Palladium material your statements have been proven false.

Way to selectively quote dude! You might want to highlight that, "Before the Coming of the Rifts," part, because the section continues:

"Of course, on Rifts Earth it is virtually impossible to honestly believe that supernatural beings, demons, dragons, magic and psychic abilities are not real," (Psyscape, pg 58).

It goes on to explain how the Nega-psychic actually works, at least in Rifts, which is a lot closer to how glitterboy2098 explained them.

Way to selectivly read dude! I brought up the nega-psycic several posts ago, and stated when I did that I was revering to the Beyond the Supernatual version specifically as the topic wasn't ABOUT the nega-psycic, but about wiether or not science could explain magic.

Temporalmage wrote:

Talavar wrote:

Temporalmage wrote:Um, wrong again. Page 57 of the Psyscape book:
Quote: In the days before the coming of the Rifts, a Nega-Psychic was an individual who refused to believe in magic, ESP, and the paranormal. Ironically, these individuals were themselves psychic, and thier "anti-paranormal" convictions fueled thier psionic potential to make them semi-impervious to psychic powers, magic and the supernatural. In many ways, the Nega-Psychic is another manifestation of mind-over-matter: "I don't beleive, therfore it does not exist, and I cannot be hurt by somthing that is not real"

Your take is contradictory to Palladium printed material, therfore as this conversation applies stricktly with Palladium material your statements have been proven false.

Way to selectively quote dude! You might want to highlight that, "Before the Coming of the Rifts," part, because the section continues:

"Of course, on Rifts Earth it is virtually impossible to honestly believe that supernatural beings, demons, dragons, magic and psychic abilities are not real," (Psyscape, pg 58).

It goes on to explain how the Nega-psychic actually works, at least in Rifts, which is a lot closer to how glitterboy2098 explained them.

Way to selectivly read dude! I brought up the nega-psycic several posts ago, and stated when I did that I was revering to the Beyond the Supernatual version specifically as the topic wasn't ABOUT the nega-psycic, but about wiether or not science could explain magic.

Revere the Beyond the Supernatural version all you like; this is the Rifts Difficult/Weird Questions thread. For the nega-psychic, their belief shapes the development of their own psychic powers, not external reality. It's their psionic powers that then protect them from magic, not simply their belief that it doesn't exist or can't effect them.

In Rifts, magic and psionics are clearly related, and technology can effect, interfere with and initiate psionic powers. Magic operates under some sort of megaversal rules, rules that aren't fully understood yet in the Rifts timeline.

Talavar wrote: In Rifts, magic and psionics are clearly related, and technology can effect, interfere with and initiate psionic powers. Magic operates under some sort of megaversal rules, rules that aren't fully understood yet in the Rifts timeline.

What does that mean Tech can initiate psionic powers ?

Lenwen wrote:What does that mean Tech can initiate psionic powers ?

There are cybernetics in various books (Mindwerks mostly) that trigger/give psionic powers.

LostOne wrote:

Lenwen wrote:What does that mean Tech can initiate psionic powers ?

There are cybernetics in various books (Mindwerks mostly) that trigger/give psionic powers.

plus you have technology that generates 'magical' effects. Phase world for example, has members of the UWW that devised tech based magic, and there is the rift generator in the basement of the Lonestar complex (the description of which, IIRC, is similar to a rift generating device from one of the adventures in the back of the original BTS book...)

so if technology, which has to follow natural laws, can generate magic, it follows that magic is also subject to those natural laws.

albiet in a way previously unknown.

I had thought that the tech from mindwerks does not grant but brings out latent psionic abilities an also increases the potency .. in my way of thinking thats totally different then granting psionics alltogether ..

Lenwen wrote:I had thought that the tech from mindwerks does not grant but brings out latent psionic abilities an also increases the potency .. in my way of thinking thats totally different then granting psionics alltogether ..

But there's no statement that the implants only work on certain people, which, if it only worked for latent psychics, you would expect.

Lenwen wrote:

Talavar wrote: In Rifts, magic and psionics are clearly related, and technology can effect, interfere with and initiate psionic powers. Magic operates under some sort of megaversal rules, rules that aren't fully understood yet in the Rifts timeline.

What does that mean Tech can initiate psionic powers ?

The sword that Arthuu owns is psionic in nature.

That's one example, and doesn't even get into Mindwerks, et al.

/Sub

glitterboy2098 wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:If a group of Psi-Stalkers somehow manage to defeat a high-PPE being like, say, a Dragon, and are forced to kill him to finally put him down, can ALL of them feed on the instantly-released rush of PPE....or is the nature of PPE dispersal a "one-at-a-time" sort of thing??

NOTE: I'm not asking you to tell me how you House-Rule it, I'm asking you if canon text allows for such a happenstance to occur, or if only one person can eat his fill of PPE and the rest disperses to wherever, as normally happens. i can't think of a reason why they couldn't.

Actually, I was re-reading Rifts Ultimate and Kevin has finally corrected that error/omission.

Every PPE-sucking entity within range of a dying, high PPE creature can all individually feed off of the PPE bleed until they either reached their personal PPE Overload limit or the supply ran out.

i can't think of a reason why they couldn't.

glitterboy2098 wrote:i can't think of a reason why they couldn't.

Because the description in the various texts seems to indicate that the last-instant PPE flow thing is a one-shot, and seems to indicate that it only goes to one recipient/target at a time.

Would every Mage/Psi-Stalker within range of of the excess PPE release engage in a sort of Tug-of-War??

By the way, that last question raises another related one:

If you as a Psi-Stalker cut a creature and eat its PPE, do you drain them dry in one shot, or is residual PPE left over once you've had your fill...and you essentially 'wasting' the rest of it no matter how much PPE the target has??

(If it is indeed true that ALL of the PPE goes away when they feed, that makes my previous Psi-Stalker much more interesting, don'cha think??)

Palladium Vampires are magically driven by a thirst for blood; we know that this condition is indeed magical because while they can be driven insane by lack of feeding, they can NEVER starve to death.

Now the question is:

If you're running a Vampire PC, can you use the magical spells "Resist Thirst" and/or "Resist Hunger" to stave off your magical hunger per the normal conditions and duration of the spell??

If so, and you were a Vampire that retained his Psionics, would the Psionic version of the spell work just as well, if at all??

cornholioprime wrote:Palladium Vampires are magically driven by a thirst for blood; we know that this condition is indeed magical because while they can be driven insane by lack of feeding, they can NEVER starve to death.

Now the question is:

If you're running a Vampire PC, can you use the magical spells "Resist Thirst" and/or "Resist Hunger" to stave off your magical hunger per the normal conditions and duration of the spell??

If so, and you were a Vampire that retained his Psionics, would the Psionic version of the spell work just as well, if at all??

I was not aware that there are magical spells for resist hunger or thirst. But should I be wrong, and assuming that they are functionally the same as the psionic powers, then sure they could be used. But the descriptions of the powers make it clear that adverse effects of the hunger/thirst still remain. So the vampire would still go insane, though I suppose the skill and initiative penalty would be negated by the magic until the insanity gripped him. But eventually he's gonna fail that roll.

As for the psionics, no. Vampires do not get to choose their psionics. Instead all vampires have the same set within which neither resist is listed, and they never learn new ones.

Burulovesyou wrote:

SkyeFyre wrote:In reference to the Zavor question. There's one variable that was left out. How big is this nebula? Once the total number of Zavor have exceeded the area of the nebula the slope of growth would level out and it would be a constant number of splits.

For example, a magic cloud that can split Zavor and is only big enough to hold 4 of them has a Zavor enter it. After the first minute the number of Zavor will only increase by 4 and not double. So after two minutes... you would have ... what? 12?

This is of course a small scale example, but you get the idea.

I thought about that too, but I didn't want to look it up.

Nebulae are HUGE structures, often one of the largest structures in the Universe besides the Galaxies themselves.

Interesting thought about the nebula of Zavor... Eventually, they'll become so massive that they'll start to collapse under their own gravity.

Scenario: By SOME strange chain of events you find yourself and your Adventuring Party in one of those places in the Palladium Megaverse wherein Teleportation is either severely limited or outright impossible due to either

A]] High Magicks (e.g., the area under the influence of the Eternity Crystal of Lord Karnack's Realm in Hades, Ereshkigal's Realm),

B]] Dimensional Characteristics or special conditions in certain areas of said Dimension (e.g., the Land of the Damned), or even

C]] High Technology (e.g., the Holding Pens of the Promethians on Phase World).

In a flash of brilliance, one of your fellow players, running a high-powered, high-P.P.E. mage with PPE to spare announces that he will cast Dimension Door (or whichever Spell that is), take the entire Party with him through the door, and then cast a Teleport Spell to get the Party free.

• Can he even cast such a Spell as Dimension Door to start with, or do we apply the Casting Penalty to the casting of the Dimension Door spell as well??
  
• These Spells are CLEARLY stated as transporting the targets to another Dimension by the mere act of walking through the D-Door/Rift/Portal. Since that, technically, counts as 'teleporting to another Dimension' (since the players are clearly 'somewhere else' at that point), should the GM somehow be able to stop the characters from walking through the door??
  
• OR.....does the act of just walking through a Door/Portal/Rift to somewhere else NOT count as Teleportation as we understand the term, and the GM allows the PCs to just go through the opening??
  Remember, in this case they're walking to Elsewhere through an open door, NOT magically scattering their molecules across SpaceTime the way that regular Teleportation Spells work.
  
• OR.....does the GM allow them to go through the Door, but apply the SAME restrictions/penalties to the inside of the Dimensional Space as exists outside, even though the D-Door puts the travelers in another dimension??

ADDENDUM: Hell, for that matter, can a character even pull helpful items out of his or her Bag of Holding™ (sorry, Gygax) in a null-Teleport place like that?? If the GM allows that magical item to work in such a scenario, then why not a D-Door which is the same thing??

(Note: just in case it needs to be explained yet again, I'm not asking a House Rules question here.)

WB16, page 93, bullet 4:

The Mystic Knight is impervious to lasers, ion blasts, particle beams, plasma bolts, electricity, fire, heat, and radiation.

Magically created energy and ley line storms inflict half damage.

What does the underline portion mean? The way I'm reading that is that a scarecrow mystic knight is still vunerable to magically created fire.

basically, the MK is immune to normal energy stuff. but energy effects created via magic bypass this, and do half their normal damage.
likewise, damage taken from ley line storms does hald damage.

so yes, a MK scarecrow would still be vulnerable to magical fire, although they'd be immune to normal fire.

Can the petals of the White Rose (Rifts: Madhaven), which are powerful enough to bring back the dead.....


.....

.......can they COMPLETELY reset a Crazy's "Insanity Collection" (wiping them all out) and therefore give him a brand new lease on life??


Indefinitely??

Mark Hall wrote:Interesting thought about the nebula of Zavor... Eventually, they'll become so massive that they'll start to collapse under their own gravity.

Being indestructible to mundane forces, wouldn't Zavor be incompressible, making 'Zavor matter' degenerate? Of course, if you get enough of them self-gravitating in one place (roughly 9x10^36 of them, a ball with more than twice the diameter of Earth's orbit around the Sun), an event horizon forms around them anyway. I name this the Lenwen-Hall-Siembieda Limit.

The horrifying bit is, given one Zavor and a continual source of magic, this enormous black hole would form in just slightly over 61 minutes.

Qev wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:Interesting thought about the nebula of Zavor... Eventually, they'll become so massive that they'll start to collapse under their own gravity.

Being indestructible to mundane forces, wouldn't Zavor be incompressible, making 'Zavor matter' degenerate? Of course, if you get enough of them self-gravitating in one place (roughly 9x10^36 of them, a ball with more than twice the diameter of Earth's orbit around the Sun), an event horizon forms around them anyway. I name this the Lenwen-Hall-Siembieda Limit.

The horrifying bit is, given one Zavor and a continual source of magic, this enormous black hole would form in just slightly over 61 minutes.

cornholioprime wrote:

Qev wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:Interesting thought about the nebula of Zavor... Eventually, they'll become so massive that they'll start to collapse under their own gravity.

Being indestructible to mundane forces, wouldn't Zavor be incompressible, making 'Zavor matter' degenerate? Of course, if you get enough of them self-gravitating in one place (roughly 9x10^36 of them, a ball with more than twice the diameter of Earth's orbit around the Sun), an event horizon forms around them anyway. I name this the Lenwen-Hall-Siembieda Limit.

The horrifying bit is, given one Zavor and a continual source of magic, this enormous black hole would form in just slightly over 61 minutes.

New Midgard - Sources say the Thaumaturgic Sciences Institute (funded by the UWW military apparatus) suffered a setback in their Strategic Applications Of Degenerate Zavor (SADZ) project today when the head researcher discovered that in order to test if the effect would become self-sustaining after the event horizon formed, an undesirable outcome to say the least, they would need to deploy the actual device, as it is uncertain as to whether or not singularity-compressed Zavor will continue to replicate.

In the event that the effect did become self-sustaining, calculations show that the event horizon would grow at an exponential rate. This would severely impact the economy within the Three Galaxies, with the growing event horizon interrupting trade and industry across a widening volume. Initial estimates show that the event horizon would envelop the entirety of the visible universe within the first eighty-seven minutes after deployment. Environmental groups have decried the development of such a device as 'environmentally hazardous' and 'irresponsible'.

A representative from the Thaumaturgic Sciences Institute was unavailable for comment.

(Zavor are arguably creatures of magic, since they do MD with their physical attacks. Under high gravitational compression, their simply laying on each other could be considered an MD damaging attack, which may cause the Zavor replication problem to continue without further magical input.

This would be an unescapable problem, as the event horizon would in very short order be expanding faster than light; dimensional travel would be your only way out, and the majority of the universe would get absolutely no warning. )

Qev wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:Interesting thought about the nebula of Zavor... Eventually, they'll become so massive that they'll start to collapse under their own gravity.

Being indestructible to mundane forces, wouldn't Zavor be incompressible, making 'Zavor matter' degenerate? Of course, if you get enough of them self-gravitating in one place (roughly 9x10^36 of them, a ball with more than twice the diameter of Earth's orbit around the Sun), an event horizon forms around them anyway. I name this the Lenwen-Hall-Siembieda Limit.

The horrifying bit is, given one Zavor and a continual source of magic, this enormous black hole would form in just slightly over 61 minutes.

IIRC, they're not indestructible to mundane forces... rather, only mundane forces can kill them. Magic is their particular immunity.

Mark Hall wrote:

Qev wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:Interesting thought about the nebula of Zavor... Eventually, they'll become so massive that they'll start to collapse under their own gravity.

Being indestructible to mundane forces, wouldn't Zavor be incompressible, making 'Zavor matter' degenerate? Of course, if you get enough of them self-gravitating in one place (roughly 9x10^36 of them, a ball with more than twice the diameter of Earth's orbit around the Sun), an event horizon forms around them anyway. I name this the Lenwen-Hall-Siembieda Limit.

The horrifying bit is, given one Zavor and a continual source of magic, this enormous black hole would form in just slightly over 61 minutes.

IIRC, they're not indestructible to mundane forces... rather, only mundane forces can kill them. Magic is their particular immunity.

I thought they were impervious to all harm, save for iron, silver, and wood?

Edit: oh, and psionics.

I'm not positive.

Mark Hall wrote:I'm not positive.

Run with me, here. It's not every day you get a fundamental physical parameter named after you.

Qev wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:I'm not positive.

Run with me, here. It's not every day you get a fundamental physical parameter named after you.

True, but see xkcd.

Qev wrote:IIRC, they're not indestructible to mundane forces... rather, only mundane forces can kill them. Magic is their particular immunity.

I thought they were impervious to all harm, save for iron, silver, and wood?

Edit: oh, and psionics. [/quote]

It's been said before that extreme natural conditions can override the Invulnerability superpower. I'd say that a black hole qualifies as an extreme natural condition.

The Beast wrote:

Qev wrote:

IIRC, they're not indestructible to mundane forces... rather, only mundane forces can kill them. Magic is their particular immunity.

I thought they were impervious to all harm, save for iron, silver, and wood?

Edit: oh, and psionics.

It's been said before that extreme natural conditions can override the Invulnerability superpower. I'd say that a black hole qualifies as an extreme natural condition.

Said, but not official.

I think that it was Maryann who originally laid out that premise.

Too bad for her that Kevin has already shown time and time and time again over the years that if something is labeled 'indestructible,' it really is (unless an exception is specifically laid out -for example, the magical Cauldron of Destruction that is the possession of the Scathach Druids and which can destroy Rune Weapons -apart from that, those Weapons are deliberately placed in all sorts of extremely damaging environments, without the slightest harm to them, all over the Palladium Megaverse in order to forever place them beyond the reach of others).

K20A2_S wrote:Rolling a 1 in combat is always a miss even with bonuses.

What about psionic or magic combat, if you have to roll a x to save and get +15 on it so you always save............does a 1 mean a fail.

I would say yes, because otherwise some characters basically become immune to magic, but official-ruling, I'm not certain.

A mulka casts Id Self. What happens?

Does the Restoration spell restore attributes if they have been permamently reduced somehow?

WuTang Mushroom wrote:Can a magic user cast Astral hole whilst he is subject to a bottomless pit spell?

I don't see why not... it wouldn't let him escape the bottomless pit, but he could use it to teleport around inside the pocket dimension if for whatever reason he wanted to.

The Beast wrote:Does the Restoration spell restore attributes if they have been permamently reduced somehow?

I'd say yes, myself, subject to the 48 hour limit for severed limbs and the like, but I guess that'd be a house rule.

The Beast wrote:Does the Restoration spell restore attributes if they have been permamently reduced somehow?

No.

Per the wording of the Spell, "Restoration" cures what physically ails you at the moment; if, for example you through a lack of exercise and/or unhealthy dietary habits reduce your physical stats, the spell would "only" restore you to your current, fat, flabby self.

And unless the lowered stats in question are due to a magical curse or some such, then there shouldn't be any changes given to you, or returned to you, by the Spell.

All Floopers all the time wrote:

Qev wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:Interesting thought about the nebula of Zavor... Eventually, they'll become so massive that they'll start to collapse under their own gravity.

Being indestructible to mundane forces, wouldn't Zavor be incompressible, making 'Zavor matter' degenerate? Of course, if you get enough of them self-gravitating in one place (roughly 9x10^36 of them, a ball with more than twice the diameter of Earth's orbit around the Sun), an event horizon forms around them anyway. I name this the Lenwen-Hall-Siembieda Limit.

The horrifying bit is, given one Zavor and a continual source of magic, this enormous black hole would form in just slightly over 61 minutes.

Well, you wouldn't really need a continual source of magic. Wouldn't being crushed by a giant ball of magical creatures be considered a magical attack? The Zavor within the inner regions would just keep replicating due to the intense pressure. It seems that this phenomenon would be a self-sustaining Zavor replicating machine, provided that you could get the ball rolling in the first place.

Did a bit of checking, Zavor don't become MD creatures as Creatures of Magic would, and they hoard easy to use magic weapons to replicate themselves, whereas if they were Creatures of Magic they wouldn't need them. On another note, while their description specifically calls out that they do not need to eat, there is no indication that they don't need to breathe. Could try to make an argument for not breathing, but considering how much they seem to fall into the mysterious 'other' category, I would be hesitant to give them extra abilities.
Were I to speculate wildly, I'd put them in with Old Ones, their equivalent of roaches, or lice .
"Ew, hey man, you've got a serious case of Zavors there.."
"Yeah, I'm about to take a silver dip, see if that helps clear it up."
"Really? I prefer to create a servant race to hunt them down with iron clubs, great fun that."
"Hm, I'll have to try that some time.."

cornholioprime wrote:

The Beast wrote:Does the Restoration spell restore attributes if they have been permamently reduced somehow?

No.

Per the wording of the Spell, "Restoration" cures what physically ails you at the moment; if, for example you through a lack of exercise and/or unhealthy dietary habits reduce your physical stats, the spell would "only" restore you to your current, fat, flabby self.

And unless the lowered stats in question are due to a magical curse or some such, then there shouldn't be any changes given to you, or returned to you, by the Spell.

I wasn't refering to lack of exercise, or diet. More like those spells that cost an attribute point when cast.

The Beast wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:

The Beast wrote:Does the Restoration spell restore attributes if they have been permamently reduced somehow?

No.

Per the wording of the Spell, "Restoration" cures what physically ails you at the moment; if, for example you through a lack of exercise and/or unhealthy dietary habits reduce your physical stats, the spell would "only" restore you to your current, fat, flabby self.

And unless the lowered stats in question are due to a magical curse or some such, then there shouldn't be any changes given to you, or returned to you, by the Spell.

I wasn't refering to lack of exercise, or diet. More like those spells that cost an attribute point when cast.

I'd still say "no;" the newly-depleted you is now the new "default" you," and that's all that the 'Restoration" Spell does -restore you to your 'default,' healthy condition.

All Floopers all the time wrote:If a Fireball spell always strikes with a 18, and the Karmic Power super power forces your opponents to use unmodified dice rolls in combat, who wins?

Does the Fireball still strike with a 18, or does the mage have to roll strike to see where the Fireball ends up?

The mage never has to roll for that spell.

My opponent stands before me. greatly weakened, within a Anti-Magic Cloud.

I have no other means to get at him or effectively damage him (he's MDC), and my going into that cloud as a fellow Mage will put me at a distinct disadvantage due to the fact that he will still be able to function (he too is a Mage, and he cast the Cloud).

In a burst of 'insight,' I expend the necessary PPE energy to cast "Annihilation" and throw it into the Cloud (at the enemy mage); the description of the Spell states that the secondary spell affects cover an area of damage sufficient to catch the enemy mage within it (provided, of course, that I throw the Sphere in manner that allows it to be close enough to the enemy Mage before it makes contact with the Cloud).

The description of "Annihilate" also states that it is big ol' blob of antimatter, contained by Magic Forces.

If I throw the Sphere into the Cloud, does it go off 'normally' by dint of the Cloud prematurely canceling out the containment magic, or does the whole Sphere -summoned antimatter and all -disappear before it impacts with something solid, and without causing any damage???

cornholioprime wrote:In a burst of 'insight,' I expend the necessary PPE energy to cast "Annihilation" and throw it into the Cloud (at the enemy mage); the description of the Spell states that the secondary spell affects cover an area of damage sufficient to catch the enemy mage within it (provided, of course, that I throw the Sphere in manner that allows it to be close enough to the enemy Mage before it makes contact with the Cloud).

The description of "Annihilate" also states that it is big ol' blob of antimatter, contained by Magic Forces.

If I throw the Sphere into the Cloud, does it go off 'normally' by dint of the Cloud prematurely canceling out the containment magic, or does the whole Sphere -summoned antimatter and all -disappear before it impacts with something solid, and without causing any damage???

First of all, you'd have to tell me if you made your save against the AMC.

The Beast wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:In a burst of 'insight,' I expend the necessary PPE energy to cast "Annihilation" and throw it into the Cloud (at the enemy mage); the description of the Spell states that the secondary spell affects cover an area of damage sufficient to catch the enemy mage within it (provided, of course, that I throw the Sphere in manner that allows it to be close enough to the enemy Mage before it makes contact with the Cloud).

The description of "Annihilate" also states that it is big ol' blob of antimatter, contained by Magic Forces.

If I throw the Sphere into the Cloud, does it go off 'normally' by dint of the Cloud prematurely canceling out the containment magic, or does the whole Sphere -summoned antimatter and all -disappear before it impacts with something solid, and without causing any damage???

First of all, you'd have to tell me if you made your save against the AMC.

I'm not in it; I'm outside of it, and the Enemy Mage is taunting me from within it (remember, he can potentially still cast Spells).

cornholioprime wrote:If I throw the Sphere into the Cloud, does it go off 'normally' by dint of the Cloud prematurely canceling out the containment magic, or does the whole Sphere -summoned antimatter and all -disappear before it impacts with something solid, and without causing any damage???

You still need to make a save.

Also did this guy cast the spell? Because if he did your mage has one hell of a throwing arm.

The Beast wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:If I throw the Sphere into the Cloud, does it go off 'normally' by dint of the Cloud prematurely canceling out the containment magic, or does the whole Sphere -summoned antimatter and all -disappear before it impacts with something solid, and without causing any damage???

You still need to make a save.

Also did this guy cast the spell? Because if he did your mage has one hell of a throwing arm.

Just say that the overconfident Enemy Mage comes near to taunt me (knowing that I only have Magic left at my disposal), and that my Annihilation Sphere doesn't save.

What (do you think) happens when the Sphere makes contact with the Cloud??

Then it should detonate the moment the spell crosses the line, but my knowledge of how anti-matter reacts to air is pretty much non-exsistant.