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Never had a problem with them, but then again I'm an old school GM, so that pc's unstoppable superhero , yeah I got an NPC for that. Had a Thor clone running around, he ended up looking like he-man's trap jaw when I got done with him.

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:Me I allow super powered characters in my games on a case by case basis.
Typically I limit them to my Mutant tribes. (powers breed true in my games)
No random powers and power selection is limited to those select powers available to the specific tribe.

Do you allow the super option for Vagabonds or the Super Spy (from Mercenaries)?

again typically only if they are one of the "Mutates" (slang term for the mutant tribes).
I have made exceptions however (but only with players that have proven they are responsible and mature enough to not attempt to "break" my setting).

I had a problem with "world breakers" at one time then I broke them in a very nasty, cruel ways , never had a problem after that.

Yes!!! So many people against it and that is fine if your GM says no (it's his vision of this world) but I am all for it! The CB1 tells of supers in France. It's always so weird to me how people feel that it is a balance thing (it's cool for the GM to pull a dragon or full conversion borg on the party of city rats but not the other way around). There are so many things in the Rifts world that will f@!* you up, someone that is "Invulnerable" truly is not (magic, psionics, etc.) and 1000 MDC can be lost in less than 5 attacks if you mess with the wrong thing. As I said before the real world has no balance and parity so why should a game? If that were the case we would be 7' tall with the body of a young Arnold, pockets like Bill Gates and IQs greater than Einstein.

I don't have a problem with extremely powerful characters as such, nor do I think that most of the people here do. But there is the matter of both time and place for such to be appropriate. And GMs have been working both with and against this for a long time. Especially against the game-breakers that we desire only to pummel.

wyrmraker wrote:I don't have a problem with extremely powerful characters as such, nor do I think that most of the people here do. But there is the matter of both time and place for such to be appropriate. And GMs have been working both with and against this for a long time. Especially against the game-breakers that we desire only to pummel.

I have encountered this so much that I have given thought to just pre-gening a host of chars and offering those up for my players...
most of my groups have me do this for them in HU already anyway (something to do with me coming up with more "unique" and interesting heroes than they do... or so they say).

Could just let the player make the character.

Then look at the sheet.

And if you think it's too much.

You take the sheet and say "Thank you! You've just made the big bad guy for me!"

And all those people who say 'Aww, it's not an unfair character' can see what it's like to face such a character - and lets see how long they can pretend to like it!

Okay, fair does, you might want to tell the players in advance that you will just claim a super character that is too powerful.

(it's cool for the GM to pull a dragon or full conversion borg on the party of city rats but not the other way around)

If the GM wanted to just kill you, he would. Generally most GM's who have GM'ed for more than five minutes have some sense of working interesting play into such an encounter, instead of it being a one sided kill.

Most players are only interested in a one sided kill.

If you've got a player who wants would like to work out ways for the ENEMY to win or get away (which is what the GM does, ie working out ways for the PC's to win or get away), then you've got something.

Otherwise it's apples and oranges.

I allow them, I also must watch the random rolls, this really backfired on me. The player rolled the most cheese possible, I thought he was making a pizza!

After that I do the well if it seems reasonable yes, if it seems unreasonable we will work on it to make a fun character.

Ninjabunny wrote:Spill over from another thread; Super powers in rifts Why or Why not?

Only once in a blue moon for me and when I do let them in they are from the Rifts Conversion book one.

I don't see any problem with it. In fact if you look in the Mercenaries book there is one cannon character FROM HU. About the only thing I would change is the Invulnerability power, and any form of it, would go by by. I never let that power in any of my games. Also metahumans have a 1% chance of being able to have minor psionic powers in Rifts and can't reproduce (sex yes but no kids).

Ninjabunny wrote:Spill over from another thread; Super powers in rifts Why or Why not?

Only once in a blue moon for me and when I do let them in they are from the Rifts Conversion book one.

Answering first, reading comments second.

Absolutely, depending on the theme of the game. I enjoy getting the most out of my gamers, and if playing a super lets them shine, so be it. Plus, then I get to throw villains with super powers against them. And oh my is that fun.

bigwhitehound wrote:

Ninjabunny wrote:Spill over from another thread; Super powers in rifts Why or Why not?

Only once in a blue moon for me and when I do let them in they are from the Rifts Conversion book one.

I don't see any problem with it. In fact if you look in the Mercenaries book there is one cannon character FROM HU. About the only thing I would change is the Invulnerability power, and any form of it, would go by by. I never let that power in any of my games.

I've allowed Invulnerability in a number of games, and it really wasn't all that unbalancing.
Although it did take a bit of consideration when writing adventures.

Also metahumans have a 1% chance of being able to have minor psionic powers in Rifts and can't reproduce (sex yes but no kids).

That should be its own super-power.

OK, after having read all of the comments...do you guys (who seem concerned with the excessive munch potential) just run with a lot of new/random people when you game? I've only had to reject one character concept in the last....hell....five or six years, and it was because of an innocent mistake (player only had the unrevised edition of Ninjas and Superspies, he didn't even know there was a revised edition, so his ogre dedicated Martial Artist was...beefy) and not any malicious or overblown act on a player. I can't imagine one of my gamers trying to minmax their way to success, because they know it will disrupt everyone else and just make life unnecessarily hard on the rest of the party.

Marrowlight wrote:OK, after having read all of the comments...do you guys (who seem concerned with the excessive munch potential) just run with a lot of new/random people when you game? I've only had to reject one character concept in the last....hell....five or six years, and it was because of an innocent mistake (player only had the unrevised edition of Ninjas and Superspies, he didn't even know there was a revised edition, so his ogre dedicated Martial Artist was...beefy) and not any malicious or overblown act on a player. I can't imagine one of my gamers trying to minmax their way to success, because they know it will disrupt everyone else and just make life unnecessarily hard on the rest of the party.

I wouldn't say new (at least not for all of my gamers) so much as young.

Marrowlight wrote:OK, after having read all of the comments...do you guys (who seem concerned with the excessive munch potential) just run with a lot of new/random people when you game? I've only had to reject one character concept in the last....hell....five or six years, and it was because of an innocent mistake (player only had the unrevised edition of Ninjas and Superspies, he didn't even know there was a revised edition, so his ogre dedicated Martial Artist was...beefy) and not any malicious or overblown act on a player. I can't imagine one of my gamers trying to minmax their way to success, because they know it will disrupt everyone else and just make life unnecessarily hard on the rest of the party.

Yeah man. Because I run online games via voice chat and digital dice rooms (click the central picture in my signature to see what I mean). I have a lot of folks PMing me to join my games. I tend to screen them with a series of cunningly engineered questions/tests and if they pass I let them in.

I had to learn to be strict because a few of the guys I let join screwed up the game for everyone. Its also the reason I have had to post COMMON SENSE "ground rules" so that people wanting to join the game don't think they can get away with being dropkicks.

say652 wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

say652 wrote:um 800mdc is only possible with one type of hero, the megahero. which to be honest is not much stronger than a full conversion borg or a heavy power armor. i mean there aren't many things a few railgun blasts cannot kill.

Before you start spouting something as fact make sure you know exactly what you are talking about.
Conversion Book 1 revised states that beings with APS powers are MDC while in the altered state.
While in the altered state the characters SDC becomes MDC.

HU2 APS metal- AR 17 SDC 800...

And that is with just one power (I can exceed that through the judicious selection of skills and other powers.)
Care to rephrase that statement about only Mega-heroes hitting that number?

Well Damian in the conversion it state,in english even, that alter physical structure metal provides 600mdc. and AR does not apply in a mdc realm. sooo pffftttt. yo

Conversion Book One revised page 46 APS Metal 800 mdc. (Stone is 600)

Conversion book original page 46 APS Metal 600 (Stone is 450)

So you are BOTH right depending on what book you use

Marrowlight wrote:OK, after having read all of the comments...do you guys (who seem concerned with the excessive munch potential) just run with a lot of new/random people when you game? I've only had to reject one character concept in the last....hell....five or six years, and it was because of an innocent mistake (player only had the unrevised edition of Ninjas and Superspies, he didn't even know there was a revised edition, so his ogre dedicated Martial Artist was...beefy) and not any malicious or overblown act on a player. I can't imagine one of my gamers trying to minmax their way to success, because they know it will disrupt everyone else and just make life unnecessarily hard on the rest of the party.

My concern is more with respecting the GMs choice.

But to answer your question...
I get varying levels of maturity in my games...
As well as newer players.
And every now and then an "experienced" player will still try to "pull one over" on the GM (its like a game to them... see how much I can get away with before the GM puts his foot down... Or worse they see it as their job to break the game world and the GMs to stop them).

Mercdog wrote:there are NO programs (except perhaps an unknown and illegal experiment or two at Lone Star)

The EXACT premise behind the Janissary project in the Rifter

Akashic Soldier wrote:Yeah man. Because I run online games via voice chat and digital dice rooms (click the central picture in my signature to see what I mean). I have a lot of folks PMing me to join my games. I tend to screen them with a series of cunningly engineered questions/tests and if they pass I let them in.

I had to learn to be strict because a few of the guys I let join screwed up the game for everyone. Its also the reason I have had to post COMMON SENSE "ground rules" so that people wanting to join the game don't think they can get away with being dropkicks.

I guess this is why all my online stuff is usually invite only. But then, I'm also a ruthless lil bugger when I have to be and will totally pull a carella on someone who tries that in a game.

jaymz wrote:

say652 wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

say652 wrote:um 800mdc is only possible with one type of hero, the megahero. which to be honest is not much stronger than a full conversion borg or a heavy power armor. i mean there aren't many things a few railgun blasts cannot kill.

Before you start spouting something as fact make sure you know exactly what you are talking about.
Conversion Book 1 revised states that beings with APS powers are MDC while in the altered state.
While in the altered state the characters SDC becomes MDC.

HU2 APS metal- AR 17 SDC 800...

And that is with just one power (I can exceed that through the judicious selection of skills and other powers.)
Care to rephrase that statement about only Mega-heroes hitting that number?

Well Damian in the conversion it state,in english even, that alter physical structure metal provides 600mdc. and AR does not apply in a mdc realm. sooo pffftttt. yo

Conversion Book One revised page 46 APS Metal 800 mdc. (Stone is 600)

Conversion book original page 46 APS Metal 600 (Stone is 450)

So you are BOTH right depending on what book you use

Well considering he used the Mega-Hero from HU2 (A post CB1 but Pre- CB1r book) as his example one cannot be expected to know that he was using a no longer canon iteration of the book.

Icefalcon wrote:I wouldn't say new (at least not for all of my gamers) so much as young.

hehe. Oh to be young again. But then you've gotta help get it out of their systems!

Damian Magecraft wrote:My concern is more with respecting the GMs choice.

*nod* I don't think you were actually one of the folks who was jumping out at me as I was reading...but GM respect is definitely one of those vital aspects to a game with a varied power scale, I totally agree.

Now as for the OP......I personally have no issue with allowing supers but you better damn well have a good reason or back story....I ask for that for anything out of the ordinary so....

Mind you I am also the guy who decided the Janissary Project from the Rifter would make more sense if they had actually used a captured Sea Titan to get the genetic imprint from for the super men they designed and the guy that thinks Dragons should be able to cross breed and just use the Demi God from Pantheons of the Megaverse as the template for the resulting offspring, so I may not be the best person to ask this of

Damian Magecraft wrote:

jaymz wrote:

say652 wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

say652 wrote:um 800mdc is only possible with one type of hero, the megahero. which to be honest is not much stronger than a full conversion borg or a heavy power armor. i mean there aren't many things a few railgun blasts cannot kill.

Before you start spouting something as fact make sure you know exactly what you are talking about.
Conversion Book 1 revised states that beings with APS powers are MDC while in the altered state.
While in the altered state the characters SDC becomes MDC.

HU2 APS metal- AR 17 SDC 800...

And that is with just one power (I can exceed that through the judicious selection of skills and other powers.)
Care to rephrase that statement about only Mega-heroes hitting that number?

Well Damian in the conversion it state,in english even, that alter physical structure metal provides 600mdc. and AR does not apply in a mdc realm. sooo pffftttt. yo

Conversion Book One revised page 46 APS Metal 800 mdc. (Stone is 600)

Conversion book original page 46 APS Metal 600 (Stone is 450)

So you are BOTH right depending on what book you use

Well considering he used the Mega-Hero from HU2 (A post CB1 but Pre- CB1r book) as his example one cannot be expected to know that he was using a no longer canon iteration of the book.

Well you have to remember that CB1r was done well after HU2 came out as well.....so it is likely a fairly common situation. Not everyone buys the most up to date revised edition of a book like we do

Marrowlight wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:I wouldn't say new (at least not for all of my gamers) so much as young.

hehe. Oh to be young again. But then you've gotta help get it out of their systems!

Of course. That is why the mortality rate is starting to climb in my games. I told all of them about a year and a half ago that the kid gloves were coming off because they were no longer "new" to gaming.

I've always maintained that a "happy medium" for allowing super powers in Rifts would be to just keep them all S.D.C.. The resulting character is no longer too unbalancing and the player gets to be superpowered. Win-win.

Akashic Soldier wrote:

Marrowlight wrote:OK, after having read all of the comments...do you guys (who seem concerned with the excessive munch potential) just run with a lot of new/random people when you game? I've only had to reject one character concept in the last....hell....five or six years, and it was because of an innocent mistake (player only had the unrevised edition of Ninjas and Superspies, he didn't even know there was a revised edition, so his ogre dedicated Martial Artist was...beefy) and not any malicious or overblown act on a player. I can't imagine one of my gamers trying to minmax their way to success, because they know it will disrupt everyone else and just make life unnecessarily hard on the rest of the party.

Yeah man. Because I run online games via voice chat and digital dice rooms (click the central picture in my signature to see what I mean). I have a lot of folks PMing me to join my games. I tend to screen them with a series of cunningly engineered questions/tests and if they pass I let them in.

I had to learn to be strict because a few of the guys I let join screwed up the game for everyone. Its also the reason I have had to post COMMON SENSE "ground rules" so that people wanting to join the game don't think they can get away with being dropkicks.

Ooohh. There were cunningly engineered questions and tests?

I'm pretty sure it was:
-Here's the theme, present the character you want.
-If character doesn't fit don't be a jack hole about it.

Glistam wrote:I've always maintained that a "happy medium" for allowing super powers in Rifts would be to just keep them all S.D.C.. The resulting character is no longer too unbalancing and the player gets to be superpowered. Win-win.

Actually, I always preferred to translate powers as-is. Some stuff, like Invulnerability, would still be quite powerful... but a lot of the other stuff would simply put the PCs on the same level as Juicers, Crazies, and other characters that are super-human... but not as powerful as a lot of supernatural creatures.

Ultimately, though, I've gone with the CB1 translations more often than I've left them SDC.

Ninjabunny wrote:I as a GM have seen a few people get mad after letting them play a super. Example someone had run at mach speed (top speed 3 times faser then sound), he did so full speed through deep dark dense sprawling woods. I warned the play that the woods would not be something he could run through with ease and it would be advisable to stick with the other players as he would be required to dodge a total of 10 times to cross the distance. He said "I can do it!" He needed a 14 or better with dodge modifier... he failed with a one third roll. You do the math on what happens when you slam into a tree the size of a red wood at mach 3. I was the jerk GM though. This has happened a lot more then I care to say.

The aforementioned young players, so you're being softer on them, or folks who should know better? 'cause when they're supposed to know better, I'm super willing to show them the door and wish them a good night.

Galroth wrote:Ooohh. There were cunningly engineered questions and tests?

I'm pretty sure it was:
-Here's the theme, present the character you want.
-If character doesn't fit don't be a jack hole about it.

The key is subtlety my friend. The key is subtlety.

Metaphorically speaking, wouldn't subtlety be more like the lock pick...with brute bluntness being the key?

Akashic Soldier wrote:

Galroth wrote:Ooohh. There were cunningly engineered questions and tests?

I'm pretty sure it was:
-Here's the theme, present the character you want.
-If character doesn't fit don't be a jack hole about it.

The key is subtlety my friend. The key is subtlety.

What are you doing up? Go to sleep.

Marrowlight wrote:Metaphorically speaking, wouldn't subtlety be more like the lock pick...with brute bluntness being the key?

His subtlety is all about letting the new person hang themselves in the planning stages. He's actually good at it, I'm just giving him some grief. Because I can.

Galroth wrote:What are you doing up? Go to sleep.

Its 8:00am in the morning.

Akashic Soldier wrote:

Galroth wrote:What are you doing up? Go to sleep.

Its 8:00am in the morning.

Exactly. I can't function at that time, how the hell can anyone else?

Galroth wrote:Its 8:00am in the morning.

Exactly. I can't function at that time, how the hell can anyone else?[/quote]

say652 wrote:um 800mdc is only possible with one type of hero, the megahero. which to be honest is not much stronger than a full conversion borg or a heavy power armor. i mean there aren't many things a few railgun blasts cannot kill.

Anyone with two major (which is not the "megahero" - anyone can roll it) can blow past 800MDC without trouble.

1200+ MDC, we'll say they get. It's better than a 'borg because healing them is cheaper than refitting/repairing a cyborg. that's the big difference in my mind anyway.

Alrik Vas wrote:1200+ MDC, we'll say they get. It's better than a 'borg because healing them is cheaper than refitting/repairing a cyborg. that's the big difference in my mind anyway.

MDC doesn't heal that fast without help though (it heals only around as fast as HP do for SDC/HP creatures), but the issue of tech vs natural there really depends on the GM. Some make repairs not too difficult, others make it so difficult you'd have to be a masochist to play something like a cyborg. If you like being less dependent on such things that are under the GM's control you'll likely lean towards a character that's naturally MDC and can do MD on its attacks simply because you don't have to go begging to fix up or replace damaged body armor or weapons.

Nightmask wrote:

Alrik Vas wrote:1200+ MDC, we'll say they get. It's better than a 'borg because healing them is cheaper than refitting/repairing a cyborg. that's the big difference in my mind anyway.

MDC doesn't heal that fast without help though (it heals only around as fast as HP do for SDC/HP creatures), but the issue of tech vs natural there really depends on the GM. Some make repairs not too difficult, others make it so difficult you'd have to be a masochist to play something like a cyborg. If you like being less dependent on such things that are under the GM's control you'll likely lean towards a character that's naturally MDC and can do MD on its attacks simply because you don't have to go begging to fix up or replace damaged body armor or weapons.

I don't like to make it too difficult for players to fix or replace their damaged stuff. I tend to reduce the repair costs (by a lot) or allow characters with the right skill and access to extra "materials" to do it themselves.

If something get's fragged, it get's fragged. However, even i know you can fix something with enough know-how. You'd practically be building a new one sometimes, but you take what you can get with the materials available.

If a PC spends the scratch to buy a bunch of spare parts and keeps them in the APC, and it doesn't get blown up, i usually let them fix something that has been destroyed. Though sometimes it has issues. Sometimes it's effectiveness is reduced in some way, sometimes it just doesn't have much MDC so if it takes a hit or gets caught in an explosion it could give out all over again.

Alrik Vas wrote:If something get's fragged, it get's fragged. However, even i know you can fix something with enough know-how. You'd practically be building a new one sometimes, but you take what you can get with the materials available.

If a PC spends the scratch to buy a bunch of spare parts and keeps them in the APC, and it doesn't get blown up, i usually let them fix something that has been destroyed. Though sometimes it has issues. Sometimes it's effectiveness is reduced in some way, sometimes it just doesn't have much MDC so if it takes a hit or gets caught in an explosion it could give out all over again.

Adding quirks to a repaired or new piece of equipment can make for some fun roleplaying in and of itself.

Yeah, i was thinking about a guy in field-refit power armor, flying through flak with every boom in the air around them being that much more hair-raising.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Also metahumans have a 1% chance of being able to have minor psionic powers in Rifts and can't reproduce (sex yes but no kids).

That should be its own super-power.

That just made my day man... Seriously thank you.

Shinitenshi wrote:I don't allow Superpowers in my games the majority of the time, not because I am not a good GM but because with all the things you can be out of the Rifts books I don't see the need to add things from other games. I also don't normally allow Nightbane in my games.

I don't like mixing the games either.

Icefalcon wrote:

Shinitenshi wrote:I don't allow Superpowers in my games the majority of the time, not because I am not a good GM but because with all the things you can be out of the Rifts books I don't see the need to add things from other games. I also don't normally allow Nightbane in my games.

I don't like mixing the games either.

I thought the whole idea is to mix everything?

It's an idea, not the whole idea. I mean, Rifts can include everthing, but there is enough in the world already that you don't have to convert from another PB game and you'll still have tons of different and unique races, classes and ideas to go around.

Alrik Vas wrote:It's an idea, not the whole idea. I mean, Rifts can include everthing, but there is enough in the world already that you don't have to convert from another PB game and you'll still have tons of different and unique races, classes and ideas to go around.

I can agree, but some players have ideas and really want to play for example a character from Robotech.

Absolutely. Done it myself. My only point is that it's still Rifts without a 'rifted' character.

Alrik Vas wrote:Absolutely. Done it myself. My only point is that it's still Rifts without a 'rifted' character.

Agreed.

Icefalcon wrote:

Shinitenshi wrote:I don't allow Superpowers in my games the majority of the time, not because I am not a good GM but because with all the things you can be out of the Rifts books I don't see the need to add things from other games. I also don't normally allow Nightbane in my games.

I don't like mixing the games either.

I gotta admit...a Rifts game without any of the races, monsters, or supernatural beings first introduced in Palladium Fantasy or BTS sounds kinda...shrunk. Unless it's a themed CS type of game, where you never leave one of the Mega-Cities. Or are these just bans for the players, and not the GM?

Hmm, yes, does that include Rifts Conversion book One in other words?